r - random

I believe the consensus is apple products work fine but are overpriced, but Lainchan isn't a hivemind and people will have different opinions on the matter.

>general opinion

borg plz...

Using proprietary software is inexcusable.

iOS essentials for me,

Mumble
Slack
StrongLifts
Clear
iMessages/Safari/iCloud bookmarks and tab sharing
The default Music app/Apple Music
Coinbase
Di.fm
Podcasts app
Remote

I don't have anything IOS. I refuse to buy any computer (regardless of form factor) that I need to jailbreak just to run programs of my choice. In Android, "jailbreaking" is just a toggle switch in the settings, available even without having to root.

But I do prefer OSX on the desktop side. It's not nearly as Free as Linux or a proper BSD, but it's stable, has great support for peripheral hardware, and there's no Windows 10-style forced-update or privacy-killing telemetry shenanigans.

I stick to the mac mini line, though. I like being able to pick my monitor. I hate glossy screens with an undying passion.

Android is a bad OS almost universally running on bad hardware. Essentials are Purify adblocker.

On a Cyberpunk website users actually ask about, and USE, Apple products at any time other than when forced to for work or Uni. Holy fuarrrking christ. If it were not for the few people who use >>/ λ / this website would be 100% fakers and liars.

Yes I mad.

>>17983
>no Windows 10-style forced-update or privacy-killing telemetry shenanigans

Hahahahahaahahaha.
It's funny, I laugh about it, but also sad. People actually believe this.

>>17988

Can you cite examples of Windows 10-style telemetry on OSX that can't be disabled? Can you cite examples of intrusive unkillable popups demanding an update from previous versions of OSX? Can you cite examples of OSX updates downloading automatically despite the user telling the machine not to?

The answer is no. You can't cite examples. And I'll tell you why.

Under OSX, any telemetry can be easily disabled by going into System Preferences->Security and Privacy, then unclicking everything (all two checkboxes, whew, isn't that hard?) in "Diagnostics & Usage". I've confirmed for myself that this actually works under both 10.10 and 10.11, with Wireshark running on my firewall machine. Nothing's phoning home when diagnostics are off.

Under System Preferences->App Store, updates are easily controlled. See the posted image for the 10.11 panel as it appears on my system. The OS actually obeys my choices, unlike Windows 7 and 8.1 if they've been infected by Microsoft's "keep trying to auto-download and prompt the user to install 10 all the time" updates.

The most intrustive OS update notification is a tiny line next to "App Store" in the apple menu saying that there's X number of updates.

So kinda knock off that "LOL, OSX is as bad as Windows!" crap. You obviously have no blessed idea what you're talking about.

>>17983
>In Android, "jailbreaking" is just a toggle switch in the settings, available even without having to root.

what? what are you talking about?

>>18010
>Can you cite examples of Windows 10-style telemetry on OSX that can't be disabled? Can you cite examples of intrusive unkillable popups demanding an update from previous versions of OSX? Can you cite examples of OSX updates downloading automatically despite the user telling the machine not to?

That depends, can you cite a single publicly available Git or SVN sever where I can clone the source code of OSX to my home directory?

The answer is no. And I'll tell you why.

It's proprietary.

Just because MS is open and public about how they're fuarrrking people and Apple is more lies about how they fuarrrk people does not mean the Apple corporation is somehow suddenly not of the bad guys anymore. Apple lies. They always have lied about everything, from simple false advertising about hardware, to how their workers are treated, to how they work with governments. The Apple corporation lies.

>So kinda knock off that "LOL, OSX is as bad as Windows!"
No. You knock off your shackles and install Gnu-Linux or BSD some other free and open source operating system. Either that or at least stop participating in communities that have anything to do with cyberpunk.

>>18012
I think he's talking about how in the settings you can go and uncheck something that allows you to install apps from other sources.

>>18013
>I think he's talking about how in the settings you can go and uncheck something that allows you to install apps from other sources.

ah ok.

>>18013

Yeah, slight problem with those examples of OSX telemetry: THEY'RE ALL ON IOS DEVICES.

I never spoke about IOS. I spoke about OSX. Rather significant difference there.

>>18015
To be fair OS X has Location Services as well (I haven't, for example, even opened Maps) and there's also Diagnostics (in the Privacy tab) that need to be disabled.

There was a project set up to document Yosemite issues (https://github.com/fix-macosx/yosemite-phone-home) but it appears to not be updated.

Anyway, IMO, what information is sent back to Apple by OS X is trivial and almost universally able to be disabled (and easily so). Windows 10 in comparison actually is Orwellian and OS X, while not perfect, is in no way comparable.

>>18013
A decent amount of OS X code is open source.

https://www.apple.com/opensource/

>>18016
>A decent amount of OS X code is open source.
If there's any closed-source code involved, OSx is just as bad as Windows.

>>18017
Go to bed, Richard.

Happy OS X lainchan user reporting in. Nobody on this site has ever presented real tangible evidence that my OS is lying to me or spying on me. The extremist lambda users here are cancer.

>>18019
>>18020
Your operating system is closed source. The only way to prove that there are no telemetry tools or backdoors would be to view the source code.
As long as the code is proprietary, Apple's attitude towards privacy benefits themselves more than the user. If they have anything to gain by screwing you over it's safe to assume that they'll take every opportunity to do it.
go to bed kalyx

>>18021
Everything that matters to you, me, and security in general is open sourced.

>>18021
They also have everything to gain by putting privacy high up. They have money to gain. They are also actively giving the finger the GCHQ and the NSA.

>>18015
Read what I wrote, the NSA docs about iphones are just an extra example. You don't really think something along the lines of...

>Sure Apple will bug our phones but they would NEVER bug our computers! No way!

...do you?

>>18016
If it were trivial they would not bother to put any work into collecting it.


>>18016
That's not the OS. Hell most of that is software made by FLOSS people that they include with OSX. How is that an argument anyway?
>OSX is proprietary.
>Apple packages some libre stuff in OSX though.
>OSX is unaffected. OSX Remains proprietary.

I can't believe I'm actually on an anonymous imageboard channel based around the cyberpunk movement, having to explain to people the ills of proprietary software and that such people are *actually defending it* and the multinational-government-colluding corporations that makes it. What the hell...
Please just stay on Facebook, you're not ready for these ideas.

>>18017
One guy gets it.

>>18022
And anything that's closed source could potentially compromise that which is open source.
>>18023
They have money to gain by telling customers that they value security*.

>>18025
Even their FileVault 2 encryption standards are public and have been tested. Their user privacy/security features have been well audited passed just "telling customers that they value security".

>>18024
It's not just FLOSS software that they package that's open, it is every underlying bit of the system down to the kernel that is open source.

>>18027
> it is every underlying bit of the system down
>every bit

No. They do not.
>>18025
This guy understands the truth, here.

>>18024
>based around the cyberpunk movement
This is the dankest meme on lainchan.

>Please just stay on Facebook, you're not ready for these ideas.
And this is the dankest meme of the free software movement: the idea that anyone that isn't ideologically pure is stupid. The irony is that in opposing the fascistic implications of proprietary software to the point of absolute purity, is in itself fascistic because it asserts that people have to be protected from themselves. RMS is the textbook example, dismissing OpenBSD and Debian, to take two examples, not because they contain proprietary code (they do not), but simply because they allow the choice to install it if the user so wishes.

I get the sense that such people believe that proprietary software exists in a vacuum and is itself a blackhole from which no information can be gleaned (excluding Hawking Radiation). Such a thing simply isn't true given how many researchers there are constantly studying the software. In theory, yes, researchers could overlook something, but it's essentially impossible to miss something of the magnitude that people claim exists in OS X. As the other anon said Wireshark, a simple tool, is good enough to get an idea of what is and isn't being communicated. You can't miss Windows 10 communication if you tried, whereas there's very little that happens with OS X.

Some OS X Blogs:
https://objective-see.com/blog.html
https://reverse.put.as

I don't believe in a one-size fits all approach to computing. I run Linux/BSD on lots of things, and I run OS X on one thing. They're used for different purposes and have different threat models, if you want to look at it that way.

>>18028
It really is, and it is all available with a simple search engine query.

>>18029

Well said. Free software absolutists are just as irritating as the Microsoft apologists.

And I'm not on lainchan because I think I'm part of some "cyberpunk movement". I'm here because the level of discourse is above average for an image board, and there's no karma whoring games at work as on reddit or a reddit clone.

>>17973
half of those aren't even iOS specific though

>>18029
>And this is the dankest meme of the free software movement: the idea that anyone that isn't ideologically pure is stupid.

Agreed. I think that the "free software absolutists" as >>18031 terms them are a problem.

Why? Well, not necessarily because of the ideals that they have. Their ideals are good. It is how they treat others and implement them.
Take their stance on OS X, for example. They don't want you to use it at all; they'd rather you use GNU/Linux with nothing proprietary.
But tell me, how many people will go straight from Windows and having everything of theirs proprietary (from their OS to their browser to their programs) to having nothing proprietary?
Relatively no one. Oh, I am sure there are some of you on here that have done that. You are irregular. Normal people don't do that.
>BUT WE HATE NORMAL PEOPLE!!1!
And thus you shall fail. The majority will usually win. And if the majority doesn't care? Then we all lose.
Ease people into things. Have people on Windows start with even simple things, like using Firefox instead of Chrome, and maybe using some free as in freedom and as in beer software.
Have people using OS X also use free software that is available to them, and show them how some of what Apple does is open source, and how open source benefits them (even if it is JUST open source, and not free software.)
If you want someone to run a marathon, you don't just drop them off at the starting line and tell them to begin, you help them train.


This is what free software absolutists either forget or do not care about, and it is what shall kill their hopes and dreams; their stubbornness, and their unwillingness to change whatsoever.


OS X is beneficial to all of us, even if we do not agree with it. It is a stepping stone. And, what happens if it was just illusion, and Apple doesn't have privacy? Well then, at least the people who went with Apple because of that care about privacy in some manner or other, which is more than I can say about a lot of people.

>>18034

All good points. I'm one of those OSX users that uses open source software on it whenever possible.

One nice thing about OSX is how it's relatively easy to port Linux-originated software to it, in contrast to Windows. OSX is at least properly POSIX.