r - random

>>15414
Nukes

I teach children.

>>15416
Woo, high five!

I become evil

>>15415
I was making the point that you really cant fight against nukes.

I be a positive force in my personal life and encourages others to do the same.

I'm occasionally involved in charities.

>>15414
>I'm sure a lot of you have a basic idea of what you dislike in the world, what do you to fight it?
If it directly affects me, I find as efficient of a way as possible to sidestep it and then wait until it is no longer a problem.

If it doesn't affect me directly, I ignore it and pay attention to things I like.

I don't recommend this lifestyle very highly but it does have its merits.

>>15414
Evil seeks attention. I fight it by ignoring it.

Evil is pretty hard to define, it's hard to fight something that is uncertain

>>15443
Wow, that was really horribly animated

>>15416
I've been considering ways to do something truly productive for society. The only thing I can come up with right now is to somehow make sure children are well-educated and have the ability to go into STEM if they so desire.

Advances in STEM are more likely to bring about concrete change for the better while the humanities seem to be drowning in politicized bickering. STEM does cause environmental problems but you can solve them only by applying more STEM. I am steadily losing faith in the idea of politics getting anything done, other than distracting the masses from whatever topics the elites find inconvenient.

>>15416
So far I think this is the best answer.

>>15458
I mean there must be something in your life that you really dislike, how do you fight it?

>Eg: I disagree with feminism so I make YouTube videos about why it's wrong

I used to be very involved in my local anarchist scene, tried to get everyone to use Linux, pgp, otr, etc., but this was before Snowden and the reaction I got was either "I'm not important enough" or "if the FBI can do that there's no way to stop them" or "technology is evil we need to go back to nature."

Some people got it, and I ended up basically setting up new computers for them every time their old ones got seized by police, teaching them how to hack WiFi, etc. But it's not like they were any more effective as a result, except maybe costing police more money.

Over time I realized that people that do activism do it for the community and the social aspect, even if they're part of an extreme group that regularly gets raided by fusion center cops.

I mean, one time during a Q/A, a guy from a high profile animal rights trial stood up and said that the FBI was close to shutting down their investigation for lack of budget multiple times, and if they had just made their jobs a little harder by using pgp, they likely wouldn't have gone to federal prison. But even that didn't seem to convince people.

I know that I can't fight capitalism, patriarchy, and white supremacy on my own, but there really aren't any comrades I could have that I would think of as being strategic, and I don't have the patience to build up the credibility to train people myself and start my own thing.

So I just watch, and wait, and try to have plans, but I'm losing hope that evil can really be defeated. It's just too big and it's crippled so much of its resistance that there's very little we can do.

At least in the west. On the other hand, ISIS can hold territory against the wishes of the US military, so maybe soon the same strategy will be useful here. I'm not optimistic, though.

>>15467
> It's just too big and it's crippled so much of its resistance that there's very little we can do.

It's the public, dude. The reason that it's come this far is because the public doesn't care enough.

>>15443
This is not the best life strategy. Take it from me because i once used to use it myself.

>Tony Stark built himself a suit, Bruce Wayne bought himself a lot of fancy toys, but what about you?
I'm not rich.

I inspire as much people as i can to create art and to do what they want in life.

We create art that can teach people and plan on making a bunch of money to afford buying things that will help or community, and ourselves to continue getting better

>>15467
capitalism, patriarchy, and white supremacy on my own,
Mmmm, this is the time to go offline before I get upset over people's opinion on the internet

>>15503
You support capitalism, patriarchy and white supremacy? Or are you one of those young white kids that are so delusional they think things like that aren't a issue anymore?

>>15505
We're on a chan so little of both most likely

Out to my other A-teamers in the thread

>>15467
>At least in the west. On the other hand, ISIS can hold territory against the wishes of the US military
Sorry, no. If the US military were to actually commit to eradicating them they wouldn't stand a chance.

Things are bleak, that cannot be denied. We are born into slavery. We are lied to and manipulated, so much so that we don't even know who our enemies are. We are out-manned, out-classed and out-gunned and frankly it's optimistic of me to say that we barely stand a chance. From the circuses of Rome to the medieval churches to your television screens, they have had a lot of practice and they've gotten more effective, more subtle, better. We, on the other hand, have minimal resources, we're untrained and we're losing.

Accept this. If it makes you think that this isn't worth fighting then this isn't the fight for you. We don't fight because we think that we'll see the world change. We don't even fight in the hope that our children will see the example. We fight because it's the right thing to do. I did not choose this side because I thought we were going to win. I chose it so that when I die I can do so with a smile upon my face.

Or that's the dream anyway. That's the reason you get out of bed and keep going, but, as always, reality is messier. You're right that a lot of people are in it more for the social aspect, that's humans. There's people in it for all sorts of reasons really, some better than others.

>>15505
>that are so delusional they think things like that aren't a issue anymore?
Every day you are lied to, manipulated and played for a complete fool and all around you stand 6 billion others, all subject to the same conditions, all with very different ideas of what's an issue. You have a choice. You can do as you're meant to and bicker, or you can work out who it is that's lying to you. Who it is that worked to create these conditions in which you were so likely to bicker. Work to dismiss this cloud of confusion they've created and then, when any of us has even the first idea of what's really going on, we can sit down and maybe get a final answer about what's important. Until then, people are going to disagree with you about every matter under the sun, that doesn't make them delusional, we are all being lied to and we are all just doing our best to work out what's right. More importantly, it doesn't mean you can't work together. We all share common goals and like I say when it comes to fighting evil we are all losing, hard. We simply cannot afford to be picky about our allies.

>>15505
Well, disregarding capitalism, wouldn't you say you are winning the fight against patriarchy and white supremacy? Isn't your situation much better than ever before concerning these matters?

>>15493
I can confirm this, when the time to act comes, you will now know how.

>>15501
I used to make a lot of propaganda, however I didn't really encourage others to do it, maybe I should have

>>15508
I'm pretty sure I don't share any goals with /pol/scum.

>>15503
good choice. i'm glad to see some people can still resist politics and other forms of agitation.

>>15505
many assumptions there about that other poster, the first being negatively charged and the second being a straight ad hominem. since you didn't leave the possibility that the poster might be right not to waste time on politics and #activism, i get the impression that your intent is not discussion but preaching.

i wonder how many different, contradicting views are being preached right now by people who all think it is -the- right view.

>>15508 (second half)
i'd only like to add that - unlike many people think - this is not a supervised thing - there's no one on the top of some hierarchy making decisions or overseeing everything and predicting the consequences of certain actions. there is no organizations doing this either. we live on an unsupervised planet with 7 billion individuals, each with their own personal interests and situations and perspectives that align them into many, well interconnected groups. there's no "illusion VS truth" or "slaves VS elite", that is just a simplistic and defective model of the actual planet. there's no person that can see through every other person's perspective, or even every group's perspective.

however, many individuals have the illusion that they themselves CAN see through and that all the pieces fit together - this one indeed is a very carefully refined illusion, and many unrelated people work on it their entire lifetimes.

i am aware that this post is subject to itself.

>>15525
> i'm glad to see some people can still resist politics
> waste time on politics
I can't make sense of this. Are you really saying that giving up the control over your own life is the right thing to do?

>>15462
Well I hate ignorance so maybe I will become a teacher to help fight it

I support gun rights.

I try to deny others the ability to do what I see as evil.

It's shitty and doesn't really remove the intention which I prefer. One could argue that if people are defined by their actions that if they don't do "evil" as is their intent then they themselves aren't evil.

Can an individual be evil?

>>15508
ISIS literally is AQI, and they've been holding territory against the US for years.

In the 21st century, holding territory looks slightly different - rather than a WWII concept of I'm here and you're not or vice versa, superpowers compete with superenpowered groups like AQI or Hezbollah to provide services to people. ISIS/AQI/Taliban/Hezbollah are loosely networked and decentralized (or resilient, pick either/both), where USA and other superpowers are centralized and easy to disrupt.

So, there are now three options: I hold territory, you hold territory, and I deny you territory. It's much easier for a nonstate group to deny a state the ability to serve constituents than it is for a state to deny a nonstate group the ability to operate.

Insurgents in Iraq routinely disrupt oil transport (the lynchpin of the Iraqi economy), power, phones, courts, police, etc.. After they disrupt these systems, they can provide their own services and hold that territory until US boots on the ground force them out. But this is just whack a mole, and the US spends WAY more than ISIS.

So, the US can win every engagement and still drain money and manpower and lose the war. This has been going on for coming up on 15 years now.

In the CONUS there's much more infrastructure of control, though, so I don't think you can mimic the strategy successfully.

>>15511
>better than what it was before
Oh well better pack up give up the fight. It's better right, no reason to fight till it's fixed.

>>15508
>fight the root issue drivel
Sorry I live in the real world and unless you completely crash the government and murder 100000 people thats not gonna work. How the hell do you think gun rights are so well protected? Interest groups that fight for specific issues. That's the only way to make change in this society with out complete destruction and rebuilding. Interest groups putting pressure on existing political parties. Im guessing you havent taken the basics of civics yet.

>>15525
>this is not a supervised thing
And yet you are being watched.

>there's no one on the top of some hierarchy
And yet there is a hierarchy.

>overseeing everything
Nobody sees everything. Even in large organisations they only get what people decide to include in their reports. Everyone is being lied to.

>there is no organizations doing this either.
No, but they're trying. You're right that there's no Illuminati controlling everything. There is no vast conspiracy, the world is not run by a single powerful group. It is just a mess of individuals with their own agendas and everyone is pulling everyone's strings. That said, you are being lied to and you are being watched.

>there's no "illusion VS truth" or "slaves VS elite", that is just a simplistic and defective model of the actual planet
No "slaves VS elite" I'll grant you, that is an illusion, but "illusion VS truth" however. If there is no truth to measure it against, then how can any model be defective? I don't pretend to know what the truth is, I don't even know if it can be known (probably not) but either way it certainly can't be put into words. It's the planet with the models stripped away, we can't see it but we can know it's there.

>however, many individuals have the illusion that they themselves CAN see through and that all the pieces fit together
We all have this illusion. The scale varies of course but everyone thinks they have some sort of a handle on the world. Without it they couldn't feed themselves.

>this one indeed is a very carefully refined illusion
I should hope so, you wouldn't want a bad one when you use it so often.

>i am aware that this post is subject to itself.
I almost feel there should be a standard for the "I do not think I am the divine arbiter of all truth" disclaimer but you'd think it would go without saying. We all have our models (stretching the term a bit) and for the majority of people they include the idea that maybe they're wrong and I wish it didn't need stressing constantly. Still, things are what they are.

>>15533
This is true and you obviously know more about it than me. At the same time the US military could wipe them, and everyone else in the area, off the face of the earth. They wouldn't and I probably should have gone into more detail but I just wanted to make my "it's pretty bleak" point.

>so I don't think you can mimic the strategy successfully.
You can't really disrupt and provide services, not practically anyway, but decentralised networks work just as well for doing whatever.

More coming.

>>15529
tl;dr politics is people disagreeing about absolutely anything they can in order to gain support of large groups of 'uninformed' people.

it's a field where people who have some superficial knowledge in law, economics, history and rhetoric go when they can't make a living in any, but still have this "i'm good enough to understand how everything works, i have a vision of how things can be improved, and i'll make it happen". they inform themselves from their favorite (like-minded) authority figure in every field, and when things aren't magically fixed they start to campaign for more support.

for example, look at the picture you posted. it's base message is "do politics or you're an ignorant sheep!"
now think of a person who devotes their entire lives to academic research, in a very specific area of a field. after 40 years of hard work, all they really can claim is how complex and wonderful reality is, and there's still numerous things ahead to be explored. there are numerous areas like that in every scientific field, and then there's also arts and more practical things, one of them being politics.

in comparison, politicians or politically involved people rather take action than sitting and contemplating things. they are somewhat aware of how little they know, but that doesn't change their mind. i respect their ambition, but quite often they end up doing more harm than good thanks to the details they neglect. this sooner or later brings resistance, and in the end their vision devolves into finding supporters with campaigns, and democratic bureaucracy. meanwhile the 'ignorant' people are doing actual work, and exploring the many things their politically occupied peers don't. of course there are many people in a profession or field of research that are also into politics, but the latter quite often seems to distort the former.

if campaigning for my own little opinion on stuff or voting for someone else's little opinion on stuff is 'control', then there's really nothing to lose with it. the planet is and always has ran out of control, and those few aspects that are somewhat well regulated by the human population are mostly independent of votes, rhetoric and #tweets

i hope this sums up why i find other fields more worthy of my time.

>>15537
Continuing.

>>15535
You're misunderstanding what I was trying to say here. I said nothing about fighting root issues, though I'll admit I was doing my bit towards fighting them there. I don't care much what peoples beliefs are, but assuming that your ideological opposition is necessarily childish and delusional is always a mistake. One caused, more often than not, by cherry picked lies.

>unless you completely crash the government and murder 100000 people thats not gonna work.
There is another option, like I said in my first post in this thread, you can teach children. It takes a lot longer but it does work. It's how society has changed so much over the generations without the whole blood-soaked apocalypse thing. Still, like I say, I wasn't talking about that.

>that fight for specific issues
Good for them! What do you think I teach the children to do? Fight for what you believe is right, regardless of what that is. Be smart and be effective.

>That's the only way to make change in this society
There are a thousand ways to change a society. If you want to change the law then a focus group sounds like a good idea, that's not really my area, but law and society are very different things. Of course, one affects the other like a lot of things in the world, but there's a lot more than that affecting both. For instance the internet warped society and it wasn't a focus group that made that happen.

I doubt any of us will make the next internet but, in our small ways, we all do our part at changing society, whether through focus groups or any of the other responses in this thread. Moreover, we all do our part at being society, it's just us as a whole after all.

>>15537
>And yet you are being watched.
just like the watchers; no matter where you are watching from, there's always someone you're afraid to mess with.

>And yet there is a hierarchy.
and humans are nowhere near the top. we're still just the bitches of natural resources, weather, and sunlight.

agree, agree

>If there is no truth to measure it against, then how can any model be defective?
nice to see some skepticism. every model is either contextual, inaccurate or incomplete by nature. a model that would be "flawless" would be the reality it models itself. you can't fit a flawless model of a person in their own brain, for the brain is just a component of the whole person, thus the model would be simpler than the person. you can't fit the human population's exact model in the human population's brains. it also becomes segmented then, communication and whatnot causing even more inaccuracy. the planet needs even more inaccuracy to be modeled in the mind of the human population, and that's still contextual because the planet is affected by its surroundings.
i hope this gives you my idea of why all models are faulty. of course, this model i just gave you could also be faulty.

>Without it they couldn't feed themselves.
Pyrrhonist starvation to death party when? :)

>>15539
You know there is a special interest group for what you are talking about called the eff.

>>15539
Also formed special interest groups fighting for change is the result of children being educated. The abolitionist were the result of educated children.

>>15540
>and humans are nowhere near the top. we're still just the bitches of natural resources, weather, and sunlight.
That's not what I meant. There is a hierarchy, some feast while others starve, of course there isn't exactly a top, it's as messy as it always is when it comes to people, but we are all connected and it isn't exactly even. You're right that in some sense the sun and the earth are connected too (along with everything else in that sense).

>a model that would be "flawless" would be the reality it models itself
This is what I meant when I said the truth is reality with the models stripped away. Some people disagree on the concept of their being an actual objective reality. Though most agree that regardless we couldn't possibly know anything about it for certain.

>you can't fit a flawless model of a person in their own brain
Are you sure? It just seems to simply follow at first glance but it's a lot greyer when you look closer. We know that information systems can model themselves in some form, as evidenced by quines (programs that output their own source). Of course in nature it's not quite so perfect but humans do in some fashion contain a model of themselves which is then somehow used by the womb in the whole babies business. Mostly this is cheating, even in our "perfect" model that a quine has of itself there's all sorts of contextual things we need like a compiler and a computer (or a concept thereof) before it makes any sense and we come back to the point that the only perfect model is the thing itself, which when we drag context in means the universe. Still, it's interesting to note that within a context a thing can represent itself just fine and we are within the context of the universe (as tautological as that is here). It seems quite unlikely that the brain would be structured in such a fashion to even remotely allow this in a strict sense, but it is theoretically possible. In a looser sense we can imperfectly understand ourselves just fine as evidenced by this sentence.

Still, as much as I think this view of models is a useful one, I don't always stick to such strict epistemology. There are plenty of other models that are as widely applicable. I think it says a lot to the complexity of what ever it is that's going on (and all we really know for sure is that something's going on, cogito ergo sum) that we can build so many models that seem so different and provide completely different explanations and meanings for things yet still produce effective results in practice.

>this model i just gave you could also be faulty.
It definitely is, assuming that your post isn't the universe itself of course.

>Pyrrhonist starvation to death party when? :)
Maybe after I've considered if your post is the universe itself or not. I mean I don't think it is, but how can I really be sure?

>>15542
The EFF are a result of the changes caused by the internet not the cause of them, mostly anyway and you can't deny that the people who actually designed the internet had a hand in it as well.

>>15543
That's kinda what I was trying to say. There's a lot more changing society than just special interest groups, the fact that these other things are causing changes to special interest groups (a part of society) is evidence of that. Like always, there's more than one way to do it.

>>15551
The abolitionist were a special interest group. Eff pushed net neutrality as a special interest group.

>>15534
Honestly, the funny thing is you're acting like everything is doom and gloom for your cause when everyone who actually supports those things which you are against is shitting their pants right now. Can you honestly say you haven't defeated "the patriarchy" when men can't even sit naturally in the metro and women can get practically anything they want simply because they are women? Can you say you haven't defeated white supremacy when black kids shout "black pride" and get patted on their backs while white kids would be beaten for saying the same thing and are taught to be ashamed of their own race?

It feels like your kind will never be satisfied and even when all men become weak and sterile transexuals and all races have become intermixed and we all live in neat similar suburban communities you will always find something that disturbs you because someone has something that you don't. By then you would probaly be protesting against something like fashion and names so everyone will have a jumpsuit and have a serial number, all for the sake of equality.

If some extremist takes something too far, people actually start to care and will try to push in the other direction.

Should I then become an extremist for the camps that I oppose? Should I blatantly spy on every bit I can access? Steal the food of the starving populus around the world? Spread even more misinformation about radiation?

If I become a villain, will a hero rise to save the world?

>>15551
>of course there isn't exactly a top
well i kinda thought that's the point of a hierarchy, but okay.

>models stripped away
but doesn't reality include the models?
also you can't really strip models away from human minds, as the reality doesn't fit in anyway - you'd just get a hollow skull
>Some people disagree on the concept of their being an actual objective reality.
i used to be into this topic a while back, but now i just think some people confuse 'reality' with 'perspective' and they are actually in agreement. or they are all right. or wrong.

i won't even bother to reply to the rest because whenever i have something to add you add it in the next sentence. let's not make a circlejerk.

>>15558
>when all men become weak and sterile transexuals and all races have become intermixed
kek
wow you are ridiculous

>>15558
You're just going to end up fighting fire with fire when you assume anyone who brings up leftist terms is a deranged zealot who wants to bring about 1984 for the sake of equality.

You will be just as impractical, just as utopian and just as ugly.

Horseshoe theory in full effect.

>>15559
Perhaps, but he'll target you in the process.

>>15559
Sounds like an M. night Shyamalan film.
I'm not kidding. I think Bruce Willis was in it.

>>15505
>>15569
Win your fight against the structures of society, and you'll create a society even more evil. Circumstances don't improve when people impose their will on the world, only through gradual degradation of structures, thereby permitting individual will. Sometimes it appears that loosening of authoritarianism is a consequence of activism, but in fact, the opposite is true.

Fighting to change the world IS authoritarian. It is an attempt to bend the world to your will. You have no right to do that. Rather, you have the right to do it, but doing so makes you evil.

>>15700
>It is an attempt to bend the world to your will.

Okay, this is way too broad of a statement to base your points on.
Second:
>thereby permitting individual will.

You contradict yourself here. Are you telling us that it's good or bad to have will? I can't tell because you seem to be demonizing it in one sentence and then approve of it in the next.

>>15700
>attempt to bend the world to your will

Literally every action you've ever done is "bending the world to your will". If I picked up this glass of water next to me and took a drink, I would be bending the world to my will.

>>15935
Does that mean we all have superpowers? As in, we're all beings capable of "bending the world to our will?" Like, woah dude

>>15456
sometimes it will take advantage of your ignorance.

I fight evil by fighting myself.



PS: I failed.

>>15414
I fight the evil within myself.

with my cyborg warriors! v I r t u a l m e c h d o t I n f o

>>15808
>>15935
Expressing your will is, by definition, evil. You have no right to impose your will on reality, and call it anything but selfishness. The only way to do good is to do nothing.

When you attack society DIRECTLY, when you are attempting to replace society as it exists with your own idea of a correct state of society, you are committing an evil of immense degree. You are obviating the will of everybody in society for the benefit of your own will.

>>17527
>Expressing your will is, by definition, evil.
That's not the definition of evil.

>You have no right to impose your will on reality
Bullshit, it is my birthright.

>call it anything but selfishness
Call it what you please, it is our right. We do not have our wills that we should let them atrophy. Balance in all things.

>The only way to do good is to do nothing.
There is no only way.

>when you are attempting to replace society as it exists with your own idea of a correct state of society, you are committing an evil of immense degree.
No, you're dumb and probably going to fuarrrk it up, but that doesn't make you evil.

>You are obviating the will of everybody in society for the benefit of your own will.
And you would have me obviate my own will for the benefit of nobody at all? I can agree that no one man has the right to choose for a society. It keeps that right for itself, but societies are but collections of men and we do have the right to choose for ourselves.

You saw that little shred of light, you heard its soothing assurance that all is well, and you failed to understand it and so you let it blind you. It should have been some clue when, by your own reasoning, your every action, even writing that post, is anathema. You are within your rights and certainly not evil to write your posts, as I am within mine to alter society and still, all is well.

I try to teach by example.

>>17527
But that is what society essentually is, a bunch of people trying to obviate each others will. With some exceptions where people manage to stay equals.

>>17529
Thank you. I'm so tired of these pseudo-philosophers acting like nihilism is the only possible truth, and that there can be no good or right or evil or wrong.

>>17536
I'm a nihilist, but I'm also a teacher. I want my students to have the best education and opportunities available to them. I know that at the long term we are all going to die and soykaf. So what?

>>17536
Have you looked into Absurdism?

>>17546
Yes, and Absurdism is absurd.

>>17607
the world of the bizarro is more interesting than you make it out to be... That is what makes Lain so good ~ the complete absurdity of so many moments.

>>17633
You don't need to subscribe to a "bizarro" mentality to have fun lain.

>>15467
The key is education. An anarchist revolution should be leaderless but anarchist thinkers seem to agree that some must act to steer people. If everyone were suitably educated a revolution would truly need no leaders and would not collapse as soon as the government was toppled.

I play DJ sets and promote parties.

The evil is so overwhelming that there's nothing you can do to fight it, so you might as well give the people the means forget it all, even if it's only for a night at a time.