q - questions and complaints

Try /archive/.

>>7861
Although a bestof would be nice, it has a bias to it because its looks like it has to be submitted by enough users to be listed here. Which isn't as a good as an automatically archivers with no bias

Plus it doesn't have the benefits from an external archiver. Like a search over the whole chan with various parameters, analytics etc etc. Plus this board is unlisted so not many people even know about it to submit to it. Hence why there isn't threads on here in the first place.

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I think this has come up before, and I think that the general consensus was that lainons didn't want an archive (it kind of goes against the cyb aspect to have a record of posts among other reasons).

>>7863
I can't confirm or deny the previous conclusion. Because I have no reference to the original conversation. Hence why an archive would be glorious right now.

But I don't understand how its goes against the cyb aspect of lainchan. Its not giving up anymore privacy then the act of posting on lainchan. Actually I would have even less information on posters then lainchan itself

Everything will be completely public from the source to all DMCAs and the setup. Probably under a permissive license.

And I'm not like subverting any private conversation. All threads are public information and readily available.

Also because running an archive wouldn't be too intensive at the moment, I don't need donations or anything at this time.

I don't see where I'm violating the core principles of cyb.

>>7864
I didn't mean anything in terms of privacy, all I was doing was trying to remember what others said in the past (pretty funny considering). I don't have much of an opinion on the matter.

>>7860
I hate being able to see everything I've ever posted and knowing it's stored forever.

>>7864
>I can't confirm or deny the previous conclusion. Because I have no reference to the original conversation. Hence why an archive would be glorious right now.
We voted against an archive because we wanted ephemeral discussion.

I can only give the paranoid perspective, but I don't want to have to focus on changing up my writing style constantly to avoid associations being made between my posts I make now and years later.

This is one of the only good chans that doesn't have an archive and I really hope it stays that way.

>>7866
Your paranoid perspective only makes sense if you were at one time identified. Otherwise you were just an anon that posts at Lainchan and it would take tons of effort and searches to single out one person. Efforts that would only yield very little in the scheme of things.

Also having posts that are stored forever doesn't mean anything if they are not linkable by realistic means and as I said before everything is going to be open and free. Meaning there is nothing malicious I would even do with the data.

>>7867
All I can tell you is we didn't want it then and I don't want it now.

I can't remember all of the other concerns people had.

I really hope you don't do this. If you want an archive, go to a different chan.

>>7864
I like being able to delete a post without it already being archived forever.

>Meaning there is nothing malicious I would even do with the data.
Someone else could, though.
The privacy thing is redundant though as it counts on there not being another record of posts (from your ISP, kaylx, three letter government agencies etc.) Every post you make you should count as being traceable back to you. Even if you post through a VPN and/or tor.
Personally like the other poster I don't like being able to see what I've posted in the past.

>>7868
I don't have my heart set on it but I just haven't found a compelling reason not too.

>>7869
I don't see this as an issue

>>7870
But those same privacy reasons exists with or without an archive. By adding my archive, it doesn't improve or hamper the current situation.

Also I don't understand this notion of not liking post you made in the post? Maybe you could try explain why you feel like that.

>>7870
I agree, but there's a big difference between the government or other agencies having private records and the entire internet having access to public versions of such a record.

>>7871
>But those same privacy reasons exists with or without an archive. By adding my archive, it doesn't improve or hamper the current situation.

That's actually what I was saying.

>Also I don't understand this notion of not liking post you made in the post? Maybe you could try explain why you feel like that.

I don't like there being a record of what I've said. I know its possible (likely?) there are others, but that doesn't make another OK.

>>7872
But the difference is the amount of information on posters compared to the rest. I wouldn't have ip, geolocation data or anything like that. I just have the text and files from each post. That doesn't really help anyone that has a malicious intent.

>>7873
But its not link to you as a person. Its linked to an anonymous poster on lainchan. And if anyone wanted to make the chain, it would be way more efficient to go through kaylx then saying to pin a person down solely on writing style on an archive.

>>7874
>But its not link to you as a person. Its linked to an anonymous poster on lainchan. And if anyone wanted to make the chain, it would be way more efficient to go through kaylx then saying to pin a person down solely on writing style on an archive.

As I said before I consider all posts I make may be linked back to me. Writing style is not as difficult to track as you seem to think. I hope that kaylx doesn't keep records; I have to put trust somewhere even to use a computer and the internet.

>>7875
Vichan keeps some records like Ip buts its salted.

And how easy is it to track? And since it is so easy to track, as you claim, why post on lainchan at all? Unless you're constantly changing your own writing style, you are opening yourself to the same risk.

Imageboards were not designed for archives and we won't have one. If anyone tries to make an archive, I'll do what I can to stop it. Once a post is knocked off the last page it is gone forever on our servers. We can't even see what posts a particular IP address has made if it has 404'd.

>>7876
>how easy is it to track?
You just have to look at any thread. For any post you can see a different style. Now imagine you have a large team of people with access to computer programs written to go through each post and make note of things like common words, structures, sentence length, spelling etc. It also helps when it's fairly obvious who makes the posts like in this thread. Then you look at other threads and keep doing the same, eventually you will be able to give an identifier to any post with a reasonable degree of accuracy. The larger the data set the higher the accuracy. It also helps that lainchan has such a small userbase.

>why post on lainchan at all?
I make sure that I post nothing incriminating. I still don't like the idea of having a record though. I feel like this is leading to the favourite "nothing to hide, nothing to fear" thing.

As for >>7877, this is the trust thing I was talking about in >>7876. There's no proof (is there?) servers are running the code that it's said they are, but you have to have trust at some point.

>>7877
I really don't see the issue with running an archive kaylx legally or morally.

>>7878
Your scenario for that to happen is very unlikely and actually has no reason for ever happening. And in terms of privacy, this is entirely a different scenario from the usual "nothing to hide, nothing to fear" argument because the attack surface is far more minimal than the extent of a three letter agency. With scenarios thats are far more likely to happen.

>>7879
Sorry, by the ntfnth thing I just meant I could see my response being responded to with it.

I feel like it's very likely to happen where other means are not as easy, for instance if I was posting through a vpn and tor with JS disabled etc. doing all my privacy things right. Then tracking my posting style would be a very attractive thing to those 3 letter agencies.

>>7880
Yes but even that case, there is nothing they can do with that other than say "this anon posts on lainchan from time to time." And tracking your writing isn't something they would do passively. It would be a very active task to track your writing pattern.This scenario would only happen if you were going something extremely wrong but even in that case, that information wouldn't be too useful.

Plus you would have must bigger problems to worry about then your writing style in that scenario.

>>7881
>active/passive
I feel like this is exactly what people said before the Snowden revelations.

It would be very useful because I am only human and am bound to slip up somewhere. Then they can trace all my previously anonymous posts back to me.

>>7882
It wasn't because there were no privacy concerns before the Snowden revelations. For the vast majority of people.

But its important to note the difference between the two because one is the result of just living and the other the result of doing something "wrong"

And unless you're posting straight up personal information like where you live etc etc. I don't see how a bunch of anonymous could link back to you. At best, they can confirmed a person of interest posts on lainchan. Thats it.

>>7883
It wasn't because there were no privacy concerns before the Snowden revelations. For the vast majority of people.
I don't know about that, I think for most people it was "they'll only do it to me actively if I do something wrong, they'd never just do it to everyone passively".

One day I may forget and post with my real IP, post a picture with GPS data, post local news and so on. I feel like this has strayed too far from the original topic though. It pretty much comes down to the fact that I don't want another attack vector.

Not to mention the fact that I like the feel of a somewhat transient existence on the wired.

>>7884
You know a easy compromise would be just delete posts upon request if it truly reveals private information.

Even tho I feel like the attack vectors are so small, if thats a small compromise to get people on board so be it.

>>7885
I think if anything it should definitely be an opt-in thing, but then we already have /archive/.

>>7886
See >>7862

>>7887
I guess that just goes to show how little people want an archive.

>>7888
Its more like unawareness and lack of features to me.

>>7889
The admin even said he doesn't want an archive. There's been no support in this thread, I don't remember the past too well but I don't remember there being much support then either.

>>7890
Sure, and I'm very willing to listen to the other sides of things. But the other side hasn't presented a good argument not to run an archive.

It seems more like people reject the notion of an archive because its an archive. And doesn't understand the merits of having an archive. Much like linux users hating systemd because its systemd.

>>7891
I think a pretty good reason not to have an archive is that no one seems to want one. Just like a good argument against systemd is that some people don't want it (and the fact that it is spreading everywhere).

>>7892
No thats not a good argument against systemd and thats not a good argument against an archive. Good argument attacks things based on merit and saying we don't want it because we don't want it isn't an argument based on merit. Its hardly an argument for that matter.

>>7893
The systemd thing is based on the merit of choice, but that really is off topic.
It may not be a good argument against an archive by that definition, but it is certainly a valid point. There have also been other points in this thread. Do these not add up to make an argument? I'll let others respond for now, but the arguments for, given earlier, don't really cut it for me, and the arguments for surely matter more than those against. I'll admit things like daily board usage might be interesting, but I can get a vague idea of that merely by lurking. Remembering (or being made aware of) good and bad times will also come by lurking. As for the rest of what the archive would be (average, boring posts) why record it at all? Again we're back at /archive/ (for the good and bad times without all the soykaf in the middle).

>>7894
Good and bad are completely subjective terms that only matters to the individual . Hence why a non bias archiver is needed because everyone has a different perspective on events.

And no one is going to want to archive the bad times because they were bad times. Germany is still trying to ignore that nazi ever happen. Its human nature. But non-bias history is important. And context is everything. We can't have without an archive.

>>7895
The fact is websites like lainchan, e.g. most chans, were never intended to have history. What 404s is gone for ever. That is the second most important thing about them, the first being the perceived anonymity. That is what gives rise to the culture of these places. What little history is needed is kept alive in the collective memory of the users, past on to the next generation of newfriends by "lurk more". A written history, an archive, will change that. As you say, if this is for better or worse is just opinion, but personally I wouldn't want change and I'm sure others will agree.

>Hence why a non bias archiver is needed because everyone has a different perspective on events
So? Differing perspectives are what make it interesting. History would not be such an great subject if we knew exactly what had happened, even 50 years ago. For gods sake, this is an imageboard! We don't need to know exactly what post number x was about and frankly we shouldn't care.

>And no one is going to want to archive the bad times because they were bad times. Germany is still trying to ignore that nazi ever happen. Its human nature. But non-bias history is important. And context is everything. We can't have without an archive.
If no one wants to then don't do it.
As a state Germany is doing the opposite.
Non-biased history is important (though hard to come by) in the real world, though for an imageboard seems pointless.
We've worked without an archive for now, we can continue without one into the future as well.

>>7896
>The fact is websites like lainchan, e.g. most chans, were never intended to have history. What 404s is gone for ever. That is the second most important thing about them, the first being the perceived anonymity. That is what gives rise to the culture of these places

This isn't true for most bigger chans actually. All the bigger chans have archives and famously 4chan has the lurk more wiki. But this hasn't destroyed any sense of anonymity on any of these sites. Because at the end of the day, they are still anonymous posters. And 10 years from now, they will still be anonymous posters

> So? Differing perspectives are what make it interesting. History would not be such an great subject if we knew exactly what had happened, even 50 years ago. For gods sake, this is an imageboard! We don't need to know exactly what post number x was about and frankly we shouldn't care.

When I say history, I don't think lainchan should be like studied like a class or anything but as a community things happens all the time and it would be great to look back on it. For instance, one of the banner recalls the attack on lainchan from nullchan right. If you wasn't around at that time, you have no context on that situation and don't even understand why it is a banner or who/what nullchan was. If you google it , you won't find anything. These are the things that foster a certain culture around lainchan and I think everyone should have the ability on look back at those times.

>Non-biased history is important (though hard to come by) in the real world, though for an imageboard seems pointless.
To you maybe. But context is everything to me. I really love to understand why X is like this or why does the lains hate Y. To some peoples it would be pointless to want to completely understand a community and have context for everything. To me its everything.

>We've worked without an archive for now, we can continue without one into the future as well.
Obviously, an archive doesn't have a bearing on functionality of a community but more like a reference of past acts of the community.

if anon is interested in archiving, there is nothing blocking them from doing so themselves