q - questions and complaints

>>7601
Will a continuation of the previous board behavior result in a permanent deletion of /tech/?

>>7602
Hopefully it will not get to that point.

>>7601
May I ask what a glitterboy is?

>>7601
Who are you, OP. What's your name on IRC?

Can you please include concrete examples of posts on /tech/ demonstrating:

- general soykaf brewing
- lack of intelligent conversation
- general glitterboyism

This way we may better re-evaluate our behavior.

>>7607
https://lainchan.org/tech/res/12755.html

https://lainchan.org/tech/res/12985.html

Just two examples on the board today.

>>7608
The first one is an example of "flames or trolls" They're implying emacs is not as good, which is untrue. Emacs is good for some, vim is good for some, etc. It's ok to say "I use/like emacs because ___" or "Vim is the worst because ___" Because that's just stating opinion and has a reason.

The second one is similar, except with more autism. Honestly, anyone who cares about what OS someone else uses should get a life. Or go to 4chan.org/g/

Tech will just be a plank for fagot. No right to say what you think, no right to say what you have in the hearth and throw it directly in the face of your interlocutor...
Meanwhile, when /tech/ in getting recked by socialo-feministo-glitterboyo-jew, /tay/ just continue it's road in the bigger fagot thread I've ever seen.

Lainchan is not for cyberpunk. It's not for anarchist. It's not for hacker.
IT'S FOR fuarrrkING FAGOT WHICH CRY WHEN YOU SAY "YOU ARE A DUMB fuarrrk".


FUCKING CUNT.

>>7601
If you want to make subboards or get mixed boards catalog, ask it for me. I can provide the script, and it's working. If you are interested, please come to >>>/λ/10997 and ask how to configure.
Mixed catalog is as it sounds, you can see threads in multiple boards in a catalog. Subboards I can provide is user's tagging. #XXXX in any posts becomes its thread's tag, and you can search or hide threads by them.

>>7610
You can say what you want, just don't be an asshole about it. It's really not hard. And if you have a say something, have a reason for it. If you think you have 'no right to say what you think' then you're probably not giving good reason for saying something. Or you want to say something not worth saying.

Why is it so hard to have civilized conversation? If you don't want that, just go back to /g/, bro.

>>7608
So basically trying to be /g/ with extremism and starting religious wars?

>>7610
Also seems like an example of how /tech/ got deleted.

>>7610
You sound like you would rather be on /g/, where you can say almost whatever you want and ruin anyone's discussion for no reason with no consequences.
I don't think anyone cares about what you say unless you can't back it up and just want to brew soykaf.

1. No bullies
2. No being mean
3. If you have nothing nice to say don't say anything at all
4. NO bullies
5. Up/Downvoting when???

This is how sub-chans die

>>7615
Your sages have no power here; the thread is pinned.

Don't be afraid to report anyone whom you consider might be offending these rules.
This board needs to be cleaned and us mods will try our best to be fair.

>>7610
go back to jinteki or whatever soykaff factory you came from

>>7615
I think you've missed the point of what's going on here.
This isn't about building a super-safe hugbox to avoid offending people, this is about weeding the garden so that interesting conversations aren't getting drowned out by tonnes of soykaf.

imageboards need hate speech so as to keep the oversensitive normalfags out

>>7620
>imageboards need hate speech so as to keep the oversensitive normalfags out
This is a terrible idea, and I have no idea why it's so popular. It's analogous to pissing on your floor to try and keep burglars out - it always harms you more than them.

Secondly, the whole idea of "keeping normalfags out" is broken. Rather than reciting phrases, you need to think about what you are specifically trying to accomplish. If you're worried about non-technical people with mainstream opinions invading LC, then don't; there's nothing here to appeal to them anyway. If you're worried about soykafdrinkers and assholes invading the site, then soykafchugging and acting like an asshole is the exact opposite of a solution.

>>7621
True-true! Because one major fallacy is to consider nazis and other racists to be some kind of trodgolyte that doesn't understand technology.

As a matter of fact, they have always pioneered new uses for technology.* In the 30s they used radio. In the 90s they had a strong presence on the internet. And now some 20 years later, everyone has access to internet. So trying to scare n00bs away by being "badical" will only attract nazis with internet access.

Thinking that you can solve proplems by having a tough front, having only a tough front is a sign of weakness. Of course /λ/ would be unbearable if it had a daily OP about IDEs for n00bs that doesn't even lurk. But on the other hand, a board where you have to drag answers out of the supposedly knowledgeable users, nail by nail is even worse.

Users who are truly knowledgeable understands the importance of being polite and can ask control questions if necessary. They understand that a simple answer today may lead to a complex answer tomorrow. Not so for the supposedly knowledgeable. For them any question that won't lead to the answer "-pnghu $$extra %chromosome //wlock.32.spyboter" is beyond their contempt.

Now, imagine a camera store that only sells highly specialized and expensive cameras. The customers are mostly government agencies and corporations. Just a few times a year some rich hobbyist buys a camera from them. So the question is why they even bother to have a store. Why not just have an office? The hobbyists shouldn't complain, no?

Ah, but the store is important for the self-image of the owners. They want to present themselves as the big tent where everyone is welcome. Yet every commoner that enters the store are constantly belittled. But the store owners takes no clue. They think that it's just a matter of time before every person on the planet owns a MMagnalux 3200/gw-camera. It costs only €3000 and weighs just 10 Kg without the extras.


*) The same goes for criminals. When CBE became popular then evading the interstate highway police became an american pstime In the 80s having a pager was a sign that you was a crack pusher.

>>7615
If you want upvoting/downvoting, please go to reddit. I like the fact that this place has none of that because it allows me to hold my opinions first instead of being tricked into liking whats the highest voted post when i see one. Also, neutrality.

>>7623
Yeah. Forums may have the like or upvote-downvote option. Not that the post does have to disappear. But it does weed out the unnecessary posts.

>>7621
why would you want to be part of a board you couldn't, or were afraid to, speak your mind on?

There is always lereddit for that.

lax moderation helps avoid a cult of personality.

>>7623
He was being sardonic, as in, he didn't like any of those "rules".

>>7625
>why would you want to be part of a board you couldn't, or were afraid to, speak your mind on?
I wouldn't. That's why I'm here.

(Good) Moderation isn't supposed to prevent people from speaking their mind, it's supposed to clean out trolling/soykafdrinking and set the minimum standards for the discussion.
You can still talk about what you want to, so long as you're actually discussing /something/ and put effort into your posts.

To stick with the garden analogy: weeding the garden isn't going to cut down on the variety of fruit we get to eat, because you can't eat the weeds anyway. If anything, it's going to encourage MORE variety of plants, because not every kind of plant can compete with fast-growing weeds.
I don't have anything against the overgrown look that untended gardens can get, but that's not what we're going for here.

>There is always lereddit for that.
Lainchan and Reddit are completely different sites with very different standards and expectations. I'm not really sure why people bring this analogy up all the time.

>lax moderation helps avoid a cult of personality.
How? I don't see the connection.

>>7625
>why would you want to be part of a board you couldn't, or were afraid to, speak your mind on?
Disregarding Usenet-, Facebook- and Google+-groups there is A LOT of internet forums and imageboards.

So how come that every imageboard must become a cadet branch of /pol/ (shor for "God, I fuarrrking hate niggers and must tell everyone about it!")? Always.

That leads to the question if racists really are monomaniacs. Are all of them only and only racists? I doubt it. Some may be interested in gardening or classic cars. But what would they think if their forums for gardening or classic cars was constantly spammed with rants about niggers? They would proably hate it, but the irony would be lost on htem.

Moderators have no qualms about keeping the topics of /lit/ and /rpg/ apart, even if there's overlapping fields between literature and video games. So how hard is it to declare every board a non-/pol/ board?

Of course, real politics will seep in, because it's part of real life. But a simple observation why this or that company failed in the 70s does not warrant a "containment" board. (More like a petri jar where a culture can be grown before it infects the other boards.)

>>7601
I've posted a description about usage, see >>>/λ/11166

>>7627
>>7628

Not saying the arbitrary line doesn't have to be drawn somewhere, but hasn't brewing soykaf always been against the rules?

Just wouldn't want to see this place end up like cyber on infin

can i wage slave plan 9 and suckless here

>>7630
There's brewing soykaf and then there's brewing soykaf.

The more "civilized" racists (think David Duke - the man with a thousand face-lifts) perfer to have a formally civil conversation about the importance of the physical elimination of niggers.

His less civilized brethren (those who has yet to come out of ther white sheets) are more like "KILL ALL NIGGERS NOW111!!! XD".

The last kind of soykaf is pretty easy to curb. But the first is more insidious, because it can be used in a more sustained way. E.g. once every day on /pol/ a new thread will be started where "both sides of the issue can be heard" and everyone who is not in favor of the final removal of niggers can have their say.

And letting the first kind of soykaf pass but not the second is totally "poor autist that can read musical notes but not play an instrument".

>>7631
you can talk about them but try to be constructive
>>7632
agree with this. framing the narrative is probably the most insidious and common way to push an agenda (reducing quality), especially since it can wrap up well-meaning people into fighting against those they would otherwise agree with.

/pol/ is probably the biggest example but it happen on many boards that would otherwise be unrelated to /pol/ (like /g/), the way I see is when the most representative group in a community creates a baseline of common assumptions for that community and if an outsider doesn't make those assumptions, or at least appear they do, they are alienated or reduced to inferiority. they can also be alienated for having any "essential" feature which the culture rejects.

I also think that everything accepted within that community, while not explicitly racist, is still racist implicitly because of the assumptions. for example if someone were to say they were egalitarian and it gets accepted, it's because there are people who believe whites are being oppressed, black people and women are more privileged than white men, etc., and these views are now what "egalitarian" represents, and not that there is actual agreement with egalitarianism.

anyway I've taken someone else's post and completely ran with it, does this make sense to any of you guys? is this still about /tech/?

>>7642
>agree with this. framing the narrative is probably the most insidious and common way to push an agenda (reducing quality), especially since it can wrap up well-meaning people into fighting against those they would otherwise agree with.
True. It would be so easy to run Lainchan in the ground by framing the narrative to be about "information wants to be free 1993-cyberpunkz". Enter the Stallman and everyone who even consider to actually make money by making programs for Windows or Mac OS etc should roll around in their own fӕces before, during and wfter they posted about it.

>/pol/ is probably the biggest example but it happen on many boards that would otherwise be unrelated to /pol/ (like /g/), the way I see is when the most representative group in a community creates a baseline of common assumptions for that community and if an outsider doesn't make those assumptions, or at least appear they do, they are alienated or reduced to inferiority. they can also be alienated for having any "essential" feature which the culture rejects.
Nice analysis! Also /int/ has become a cadet branch of /pol/. Especially the national generals. Disgusting.

>I also think that everything accepted within that community, while not explicitly racist, is still racist implicitly because of the assumptions. for example if someone were to say they were egalitarian and it gets accepted, it's because there are people who believe whites are being oppressed, black people and women are more privileged than white men, etc., and these views are now what "egalitarian" represents, and not that there is actual agreement with egalitarianism.
On the other hand the fact that women and black americans in general may have a harder time, they do get free passes when they misbehave. "Oh women was treated badly so therefore Sharon Osbourne and the rest of her talkietalktalkfriends can laugh at peins mutilation." Or "There was slavery over 100 years ago, therefore we should loot the korean-owned shops."

Not that this is any excuse for us to even consider what David soykafing-Duke has to say. And not that Lainchain is about these issues.

>anyway I've taken someone else's post and completely ran with it, does this make sense to any of you guys? is this still about /tech/?
Well, technically we're on /q/ now. ;-) And please be consistent in beginning your sentences with a capital letter. Makes for better reading. B-)

>>7632
>The more "civilized" racists (think David Duke - the man with a thousand face-lifts) perfer to have a formally civil conversation about the importance of the physical elimination of niggers.
Good. That's fine. He's entitled to his opinion regardless of how racist it is and civil conversation just provides us with opportunities to show how wrong he is.

>But the first is more insidious
Insidious implies that it has bad consequences, there's nothing bad about everyone clearly seeing how bull soykaf what the racist has to say is.

>because it can be used in a more sustained way
This will be sustained across culture as a whole until the racists are all genuinely gone. I'd say "or we are" but if we lose this one I'll eat my hat.

>everyone who is not in favor of the final removal of niggers can have their say.
People arguing against the final removal of niggers sounds like exactly what /pol/ needs to me.

>And letting the first kind of soykaf pass but not the second is totally "poor autist that can read musical notes but not play an instrument".
I have no idea what you're trying to get at here, at all. So let me explain to you why it's not only good that we let racists et al speak in civil conversation but necessary if we want to end racism. It turns out if you don't let the first type of person talk, they turn into the second type. They could not express their opinions and so they never had the opportunity to have them challenged. Moreover, the only place they feel they can be themselves is with their racist friends. All this does is encourage the formation of communities of racists, strengthening their views. Hell, in Germany they're buying whole villages for themselves.

Furthermore allowing people to speak unpopular opinions is essential to progress. Let's stick with racism and look back at the civil rights movement. In later times when the movement had gained traction and made serious progress, televised debates would always allow someone to argue against them for the sake of showing both sides and many people have said that this is something we should not have allowed to happen. What they ignore is that, in the early days, without this willingness to hear both sides it would have been civil rights movement who weren't given a platform.

Attempting to prevent these people from speaking is like turning off the fire alarm because it's making a loud noise. You're not solving the problem just making it harder to notice.

It's been some time I didn't came to lainchan and coming back I tought "fuck, am I on /g/?" I don't know what happened, but it gives me the impression it's the natural course of things or the price of popularity. Maybe I will just find some other place.

>>7668
I don't think it's the natural price of popularity insomuch as the biggest technology *chan culture is /g/, the users of which are constantly trying to escape and move on to something better without realizing they are the reason why things are so bad to begin with.

Since kalyx is also trying to make /tech/ better again, what would you suggest we do?

>>7669
I don't have good ideas, the only thing I can think of is strict moderation, but that gives a strong bias to the mods and takes a lot of time. Maybe the bias part is not so bad, I know no examples.

(mod here)
>>7671
well, you could report posts more, that will make our jobs easier

but I'm wondering if there's a specific kind of post/thread you think is detrimental

>>7665
Two words: Property rights. Lainchan is private property. It is the owner's perogative to do whatever they want with it. Install arbitrary word filters? Yes. Delete and create boards on a whim? Yes. Banning just because. Yes.

However, these cheap power trips are soo 1998 and would only scare users away. And blatant "ironic" racism scares people away too. A Lainchan without users has no value for anyone.

The proof you should present if why it is Absolutely!!! necessary to have some racism to go with discussions about programming. I don't have to prove the opposite. Because of the general idea that you shouldn't have to associate yourself with despicable persons.

Another despicable person is Stallman. Yes, I despise his person and all his ideas. I despise the whole "Free Software Movement" too. It's a bunch of young men with lots of time and no money or a few moguls. No such thing as a middle class here. In general they haven't delivered anything of value, therefore the only thing left for them is to be unbearable with theyr "clever" recursive acronyms.

The reason that I can show my contempt of Duke and Stallman is that I can afford it. It is not Absolutely!!! necessary to tolerate them in order to learn about programming. The only instrument who could uphold their hypothetical monopoly on computer knowledge is a gun. (And yes, I know that Stallman is pretty popular here, so I won't sokyaf Lainchan up with a crusade. And there is no reason to, because Lainchan is not a Stallman circle soykaf.)

And the idea that racists can be reasoned with? Re: Property rights and freedom of association. Do you really think that racists constantly wage slave on image boards because they haven't made up their minds about what to do with the niggers? If you take the ephemeral nature of image boards into account, shilling on image boards is one of the most cost-effective propaganda media there is today. All the wage slave need is persistence. And this is where the generals of /int/ are perfect. They have a pretty much fix audience who will read the shill's daily resentments. Doesn't have to be any concrete such as "Join party X" or "Do Y", just general resentment. The probability of getting outed is slim to none.

And it is really interesting that of all ideas there is, racism gets always a free pass of understanding. Back in the days racists could be blatand and hard. But now they are a bunch of spineless amoebas trying to frame the narrative into something about "freedom of speech".

On the other hand, if homophobes such as Westboro Baptist Church or Martin Ssempa started shilling, they would probably be shooed away. Doesn't have to be any banning from the mods. Just that enough users shows their disapproval. The generals of /int/ however are living proof of Burke's observation that evil triumphs when good men do nothing.

>>7699
>And the idea that racists can be reasoned with?
We generally can't because our intellectual high-ground is so far above of typical antiracist. African nilotic tribes such as masai make excellent distance runners because they have light leg bones among other biomechanically very advatagous herited traits. Rest flows naturally from there on. Antiracist throws tantrum and refuses all evidence. Even if he understands he refuses to acknowledge that he understands. Debating antiracist is like debating crazy cultist who believes he goes to hell instantly for even thinking against their cult doctrine because skywizard reads his thoughts.

I take it back. Get rid of /tech/ there is nothing on there that is worth keeping. Ban these users on sight if they try to post their /g/-tier garbage anywhere else on lainchan.

>>7750
Your image confuses me. I don't know why you posted it.

>>7744
Masai runners? Argumentum ad cult?

Didn't you read: >>7628
>That leads to the question if racists really are monomaniacs. Are all of them only and only racists? I doubt it. Some may be interested in gardening or classic cars. But what would they think if their forums for gardening or classic cars was constantly spammed with rants about niggers? They would proably hate it, but the irony would be lost on htem.

>>7750
But a lot of /tech/-issues doesn't fit under /diy/. If you ask about advice on a good amplifier then the answer isn't "Make one yourself at our nice little hackerspace".

Thank you, lainmods, I'm actually glad to see that you are actively taking steps to prevent this from turning into /g/', since the original has an exceptional low discussion quality.

>>7671
>but that gives a strong bias to the mods and takes a lot of time

I'd say that this only applies to a situation in which there is a large constant flow of users coming in, but I'd say that when moderation is a bit strict now, the flow will stop and it will naturally "filter" new lainons, once it is clear that the general /g/ soykaf-poster will not find a new home here, mods can be more loose in their moderation until the situation demands more action again

>>7758
Yeah, just like that. You are lingering somewhere in bottom three levels without even trying to say something intelligent for once. It gets very tiring because all of you are permanently stuck on those bottom three layers.