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 No.19332[View All]

What have you done today to soykaf the system?

The last thread hit the reply limit:
https://lainchan.org/cyb/res/12031.html
However:
>Here are some good sauces:
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_anarchism
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikhail_Bakunin
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Participism
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inclusive_Democracy

>Also keep in mind:

>Libertarian socialists believe in converting present-day private property into the commons while retaining respect for personal property.

1)Keep the discussion civilised, because we the proletariat should burn the system, not each other :P
2)Try to read the old thread first
120 posts and 14 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.
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 No.20117

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>>20114

Well, in the 90's, guys like Timothy Leary or Genesis P-Orridge tried to make cyberpunk a subculture with its own guiding philosophy of sorts that was linked to transhumanism and rave culture. Leary even came up with the idea of "Digital Polytheism"

But a lot of people eventually found all that stuff to be really shallow like most post-modernist soykaf .

>>20115

It is true that anarchism was mostly a left wing phenomenon when it started, but for the last sixty or so years, we've seen the emergence of a new trend of "Conservative Anarchism" or "Anarchists of the Right" in reaction not only to leftism but also the mainstream right. Lot of people think Anarcho-Capitalism was a reaction to socialism or communism, but really it was a reaction to the increasing authoritarianism, corporatism and war mongering of mainstream american conservatives.

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 No.20119

>>20117
>Leary even came up with the idea of "Digital Polytheism"
It's funny because the dissolution of the Bourgeoisie and formation of the Precariat really reinforces his "Alchemists of the Middle Ages" metaphor to cyberpunk way back when.
>But a lot of people eventually found all that stuff to be really shallow like most post-modernist soykaf.
Well yeah, by the time the 90s rolled over the neoliberal mainstream had already grown accustomed to postmodern counterculture. Globalism was finally starting to have its effect and so while everyone was being more nihilistic than usual, few began to realize that subverting the State would be far less aesthetically pleasing in the near future. If you want an example of just how irrelevant the so-called "cyberpunks" of the 90s were then just look at how vastly different the anti-globalization protests from '98-01 were in comparison to the political movements of the '60s and '70s.
> we've seen the emergence of a new trend of "Conservative Anarchism" or "Anarchists of the Right"
The term you're looking for is "Paleolibertarianism" and it's more or less encapsulated by some in the neoreactionary blogosphere; whether or not being socially conservative whilst proclaiming one's self as anarchist is disingenuous has been fought over for decades now.

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 No.20122

>>20117
"Anarcho"-Capitalism has nothing to do with anarchism. It's just stateless capitalism, not anarchist at all.

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 No.20129

>>20119
>The term you're looking for is "Paleolibertarianism" and it's more or less encapsulated by some in the neoreactionary blogosphere;

What I was referring to includes paleolibertarianism, but I would not say it's limited to it or even anarcho-capitalism

If I can use myself as an example, I don't really know where I fit. I know I tend to favor "anarchy" in the sense of no government, although if there was a form of government I am more likely to support, even though most governments are trash imo, it would probably be some form of unconstitutional monarchy. I don't however see any current monarchy worth my support and I don't think there could be a monarchy that meets my own high standards. I like some of the ideas of anarcho-capitalism with their emphasis on private property and free enterprise because I like being free to own my own soykaf and sell whatever I want for whatever price others are willing to buy it and nobody has the right to tell me I can't. But an-caps tend to have a very materialistic way of thinking that I find a problem with a lot of anarchist movements. That and they still seem like they care about soykaf like "progress" and I don't care about the progress of society. I don't even really think I care about society at all. I like some of the environmentalism of anarcho-primitivism, but I don't believe we all need to or can become hunter gatherers and I don't find some of the attitudes towards technology in that movement very practical. Unless they intend to prevent agriculturalism by force, agriculturalism will always be around. Anarcho-socialism and anarcho-communism seem to be full of social justice warriors these days who want to spend more time fighting for LBGT rights, feminism and other crap I don't care about. Plus, it's unlikely that any large collective project like that will last very long, what with that pesky thing called human nature and its constant desire for more.

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 No.20144

>>20129
>but I would not say it's limited to it or even anarcho-capitalism
I would; http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/13/opinion/sunday/the-end-of-the-nation-state.html
>it would probably be some form of unconstitutional monarchy
You're sounding more and more like a monarchist neoreactionary; a "radical" libertarian desperately trying to find a way out of your ideology's failures by cherry-picking everything that has come from the Age of Enlightenment, and rejecting the rest. Like someone who actually wants to be a serf; someone with the expectation that their chosen authoritarian thugs for whatever reason wouldn't put them up against the wall.
>Anarcho-socialism and anarcho-communism seem to be full of social justice warriors these days who want to spend more time fighting for LBGT rights, feminism and other crap I don't care about.
Emphasis on "seem"; nevermind the fact that social justice is central to combating socioeconomic inequality of any kind. You simply lack perspective.

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 No.20159

>>20144

>Emphasis on "seem"; nevermind the fact that social justice is central to combating socioeconomic inequality of any kind. You simply lack perspective.


I think that's interesting. It probably seems that way because every anarcho-communist and socialist is a keyboard warrior who thinks blogging about it on tumblr is fighting for the equality of marginalized groups.

>I would; http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/13/opinion/sunday/the-end-of-the-nation-state.html


Looks like the capitalists are better at anarchy than the socialists in this thread.

>>20099
>both of which are deeply embedded with politics

I guess what I'm trying to say is that when Gibson wrote Neuromancer he was probably inspired by the nihilism of the punk scene in the UK, Vancouver, and SF. Although he was a hippy I don't think he was inspired by their "socialist" tendencies. I don't think those tendencies really developed in the punk subculture until the early 90's anyways with all the anti globalization soykaf .

Ultimately I think Gibson was inspired by DIY, individualism, and stuff like that. I don't think you could find the subtext anywhere in those books that "Hey man we should try out socialism" it's just not a theme of that work. Consequently I wouldn't call it a theme of cyberpunk.

Referencing that article about Special economic zones in places like Singapore and and the UAE I think that's more along the lines of the anarchy and social decay that Gibson pictured.

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 No.20165

>>20106
>cyberpunk is an aesthetic
which is something many "serious" cyberpunks would disagree with but there is a cyberpunk aesthetic so I'll give you that.

"Cyberpunk" is just a label given to a specific cultural development. Before "Cyberpunk", it was just called the Movement and we didn't get in these pointless arguments about cyberpunk.

I also feel like a good portion of this discussion should go on /q/:
>threads dedicated to specific ideologies
I see what you mean about not creating an echo chamber but I feel like your strategy can lead to problems down the road.

If you're in a conversation on a particular topic with someone, then you want to make sure there's either a baseline of knowledge or a level of receptivity to that knowledge.

In political conversations, this knowledge is the exact same thing as opinion. This is actually always the case, however politics are one of the easiest ways to make people painfully aware of that.

So where should we draw the line on what makes something political and therefore an echo chamber? I don't think we can. topics like anarcho-socialism, while they may be a whole lot of people agreeing with one another, are still topics of discussion like any other. It's not the responsibility of Kalyx or any staff members to enforce an agreement-free zone or prevent 'echo chambers'. It is however their responsibility to make sure threads stay on topic or at least follow a conversational progression, and people don't shitpost.


>anti-corporatist is more accurate

I agree cyberpunk fiction often paints corporations as the bad guys or at least oppressive and doesn't explicitly state capitalism itself is. However, I would argue they're open to substantial anti-capitalist analysis and interpretation. Also the presence of anti-capitalist sentiment doesn't necessarily mean there is no presence of capitalist sentiment. So I wasn't arguing the exclusion of capitalism, just the presence of anti-capitalism.

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 No.20166

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>>20159
>every anarcho-communist and socialist is a keyboard warrior who thinks blogging about it on tumblr is fighting for the equality of marginalized groups.

pic related is some anarcho-communists being keyboard warriors.

>Looks like the capitalists are better at anarchy than the socialists in this thread.


that's a contradiction if I ever heard one.

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 No.20168

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>>20116
http://www.meltingasphalt.com/hallucinated-gods/
this linked article is very fascinating. Does anyone know where can I find more writing / illustrations / theories like pic related?

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 No.20170

>>20159
you're focusing too much on the works of gibson alone, I mean sure he wrote neuromancer but there's more than a few authors who were writing similar stuff at the same time he did, who also made unique contributions to the genre

also, I think the disagreement over the politics of punk rock goes back to its roots. From Wikipedia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punk_rock#Philosophy
>Even as nostalgia was discarded, many in the scene adopted a nihilistic attitude summed up by the Sex Pistols slogan "No Future";[3] in the later words of one observer, amid the unemployment and social unrest in 1977, "punk's nihilistic swagger was the most thrilling thing in England."[12] While "self-imposed alienation" was common among "drunk punks" and "gutter punks", there was always a tension between their nihilistic outlook and the "radical leftist utopianism"[13] of bands such as Crass, who found positive, liberating meaning in the movement. As a Clash associate describes singer Joe Strummer's outlook, "Punk rock is meant to be our freedom. We're meant to be able to do what we want to do."[14]
so punk rock was never politicized, it was political from the beginning. It was also apolitical from the beginning.

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 No.20171

>>20169
the article I linked. Should I get the book?

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 No.20178

>>20171
I wrote that comment before I read the article, I'm pretty sure Watts got it from that essay.

Anyway, yeah, you should definitely read the book. Read Blindsight(http://www.rifters.com/real/Blindsight.htm) first, though. They'll both leave you with an existential crisis. Deals a lot with consciousness and the singularity.

/offtopic

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 No.20181

>>20159
>because every anarcho-communist and socialist is a keyboard warrior
This is far from the truth.
>Looks like the capitalists are better at anarchy than the socialists in this thread.
Accelerating the death of neoliberal capitalism and coddling up the remains into your own feudal-like state isn't anarchism.

What do you lainons think of what's been going on in Rojava?
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/29/magazine/a-dream-of-utopia-in-hell.html
http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2015/11/25/rojava_is_a_radical_experiment_in_democracy_in_northern_syria_american_leftists.html

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 No.20182

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>>20144
>You're sounding more and more like a monarchist neoreactionary;

Well, monarchy IS the most natural form of government human beings have ever had. America's government is far more authoritarian than King George III ever was. Monarchy has lasted as long as it has because it is the form of government that responds most to the human condition. It is also the most universal form of government, being the traditional form of government in almost every part of the world before the modern era. The Republic, and the democratic ideas upon which it was supposed to be based, was exported from the West to everywhere else and was a hand-me-down from Ancient Greece which was resurrected mainly to serve new bourgeois interests, not proletariat or peasant interests.

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 No.20183

>>20181
>neoliberal capitalism
Is this actually a serious thread? I can't tell anymore.

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 No.20184

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>>20182
>>20144
>a "radical" libertarian desperately trying to find a way out of your ideology's failures by cherry-picking everything that has come from the Age of Enlightenment, and rejecting the rest.

I don't call myself libertarian. In my experience, most libertarians have no special taste for monarchy, other than maybe something like the British model, for obvious reasons. I do respond positively to the libertarian commitment to free markets and private property, but without a hereditary monarchy or nobility whose rights are protected by the same principles of private property and who acquire authority by appeal to something higher than humanity or material wealth, I don't see how the capitalist/merchant class can be checked so as to prevent its more nefarious elements from establishing some kind of oligarchy of their own. Like with communism, human nature often presents a stumbling block for most utopian dreams and while anarcho-capitalists and libertarians strike me as more realistic in their acceptance of the reality of human evil as far as communism is concerned, they downplay or don't realize the potential abuse of their own systems which while perhaps potentially less destructive than communism has proven to be, still presents a very serious potential danger. After all, it was capitalist money which helped make the Bolshevik Revolution possible in the first place and even today, places like the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, which many would consider a prime example of the evils of monarchy in the modern era (and it is definitely one of the worst) are in fact heavily supported by the supposedly free democratic capitalist nations of the world, which is how they get away with so much.

The libertarian argument is usually something like "well, if we had more of a free market this kind of stuff wouldn't happen as much," but what if some people just want to use the free market to get the power they desire and once they get it use that power to control or destroy the free market? Somebody has to check those people while making sure the markets have a great amount of freedom. Monarchies were usually pretty good at that, which is why the merchant classes often supported those movements which would reduce the monarchs power over them (like democracy) but not necessarily reduce their own ability to control the peasants who would migrate to the cities to fill out the ranks of the industrial labor in their factories. Look at the wealthiest people in the world today, most of them aren't descended from traditional aristocracy. Heck, many of them have been Jews, the most cursed people in traditional Christian (and Muslim) society.

Libertarians still cling to a lot of ideas of classical liberalism, which while admirable in some ways, I still think have proven to be very dangerous in the long run.

>Like someone who actually wants to be a serf


That's funny cause many anarcho-socialists and anarcho-communists sound like they actually want to be peasants. Nothing wrong with that though. Peasant life really wasn't that bad when compared to the conditions of later industrial workers and the former probably had more control over their own lives than the latter.

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 No.20185

>>20183
>I can't tell anymore.
Why?

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 No.20187

>>20182
>Natural
You could have just said hierarchy.
>Monarchy has lasted as long as it has because it is the form of government that responds most to the human condition.
This darwinistic mindset is dying thanks to the globalization and automation of labor; regressing back to monarchic states would accomplish nothing because they aren't sustainable without attrition; just look at how much soykaf Saudi Arabia has been brewing lately with people comparing them to DAESH. Hierarchy requires a degree of control that things like the Internet are able to subvert with ease.
>>20184
>I don't call myself libertarian.
You should; many anarchists are simply left-libertarians when you get down to it.
>most libertarians have no special taste for monarchy,
If you actually looked into the neoreactionary blogosphere then you'd see that you're not alone, and certainly aren't anarchist. It's that socially conservative side of you that limits your being the latter.
>potentially less destructive than communism has proven to be
I really don't want to argue semantics here, but what you think is communism isn't communism under an anarchist context. You should read George Orwell's personal account of the Spanish Civil War, "Homage to Catalonia" if you wanna learn more about anarcho-socialism.
>That's funny cause many anarcho-socialists and anarcho-communists sound like they actually want to be peasants
This is a contradictory statement; many anarchists are serfs already. When I suggested you actually wanted to be a serf, I was referring to you expecting to be in the profician or salariat class as pointed out by Guy Standing, >>19424
>Peasant life really wasn't that bad
Tell that to the Precariat.

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 No.20188

> discussing arbitrary political concepts on lainchan
Have you even watched SEL?

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 No.20190

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>>20178
Thanks for the link; I've yet to go through that AMA in its entirety but I thought it would be of interest here. Anarcho-Transhumanism seems like a great reaction to its primitivist counterpart as well as the overarching clusterfuck that is the transhumanist movement as a whole; http://motherboard.vice.com/read/the-transhumanist-movement-is-having-an-identity-crisis
>>20188
>neurosuggesting 90s nihilism is still relevant
read pic related and try not to kill yourself


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 No.20192

>>20190
And thats the point of the show, right over your head

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 No.20194

>>20192
Guess I'll have to rewatch it then.

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 No.20198

>>20192
Not the anon you're insulting but I'll be dead honest, SEL wasn't a very good show. I stopped half-way through it. I just come here for the cyber board.

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 No.20203

>>20198
I have never seen anyone legitimately say they thought lain was bad and the one place I fuarrrking do is on a website called "lainchan".

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 No.20205

>>20183
there's an actual monarchist here and your issue is with the phrase neoliberal capitalism?

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 No.20217

>>20198
I agree with this guy. SEL was way too abstract. I dropped it halfway the second time I tried watching it.

A proper anime for lainchan should be Texhnolyze or even Kaiba. Both tackle high tech and the ethics of transhumanism better than lain ever did.

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 No.20227

>>20183
neoliberal capitalism is pretty well-established as the dominant form of government in the world right now.

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 No.20239

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>>20227
Yup; it's just another word used to describe globalization; if it weren't for the neoliberal policies enacted by the Reagan and Thatcher administrations during the late seventies and early eighties, things would likely be different today.

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 No.20256

Hey guys, what could be considered essential reading?
I really wanna learn more about this, any essential works you recommend?

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 No.20273

>>20116
rechelon is a fuarrrking liberal, not an anarchist.

What's the origin of the blue/black A-T flag?

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 No.20286

>>20256
I'm reading conquest of bread by peter kropotkin, I'd suggest it

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 No.20293

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>>20273
>rechelon is a fuarrrking liberal, not an anarchist.
Never heard of him up until very recently; pls elaborate
>What's the origin of the blue/black A-T flag?
I'm unsure. Blue in flags have always stood for liberty and perseverance of the individual. From a transhumanist point of view it makes sense to merge it with the black flag; yet I've never seen any transhumanists fly a plain blue flag in the wild before.. Which brings me back to my prior point on other schools of anarchist thought copying the syndicalists; it just seems too deliberate.

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 No.20297

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If only anarchism never worked with communism, it would had a chance to survive, instead you are just like some radical muslims, you exist just to spread your commie soykaf around the world and be conquered by dictators.

You all are delusional, without knowing that you are all tools for establishing total dictatorship. You want freedom, you end up being slaves.

This is what happened to russia in 1917. Anarchists were used as tools for subversion, but then totally wiped the hell out by Lenin.

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 No.20300

>>20297
State Socialism is nothing new and is the reason why the Left is pretty much dead these days; the West's adoption of neoliberalism was just a convenient death knell back then. It's taken thirty some odd years for Muslim leftists to wean off their militant Marxist-Leninist ideologies (see links in >>20181 about what's been going down in Rojava); so you're only preaching to the choir here.

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 No.20307

>>20166

Going out and burning soykaf twice a year at the g8 and the g20 is hardly creating meaningful change or winning over the hearts and the minds of the people.

As far as creating lasting movements anarcho-socialists and communists have always failed. Most anarchist communities have a lifespan of <10 years. I'd say the majority of them fail because of pure edgemastery... although you'd have to do a study.

Maybe there was a time when anarchists weren't keyboard warriors. Like it looked like after they got trounced in Seattle people were at least empathetic to them. But the turnout at g8 and g20 protests has been going down consistently.

Now aside from professional protesters (what's left of the black block) who all seem like fuarrrking jackasses and cry babies to everyone and a few fading isolated communities in shit-hole countries. Anarchism is confined to the internet.

Don't worry you'll grow out of it.

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 No.20309

>>20307
>is hardly creating meaningful change or winning over the hearts and the minds of the people.
What else do you expect people to do when their minds are stuck in the twentieth century? What soykaf; today's counterculture is just now catching up with technological advancements made two decades ago. We've been in limbo ever since high-speed internet became wildly available.
>Don't worry you'll grow out of it.
Looks like you're no different than the anarchists you ridicule.

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 No.20314

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>>20297
>>20300

I think that might also be the reason for these more conservative forms of anarchism popping up, be they an actual kind of school of thought like anarcho-capitalism or just a vague, individualistic and almost kind of semi-anarchism that leans toward a libertarian or socially conservative affiliation. The utopianism, the political correctness, the radical social justice warrior internet cult, the tendency for the anarchist left to just be a tool of the statist left all I think are contributing to some feelings of like "something's not working"

Among the right, I think many moderate right-wing, Bible reading sort of people who recognize the war and fear mongering and big government loving sentiments of people like Donald Trump and others but can't stand Obama any more feel left out of the current political process. Likewise, I think there are handsome portions of the center-left or even the far-left who are also being marginalized, especially within the anarchist movement.

I think anarcho-capitalists and anarcho-socialists probably have more in common with one another than with their statist counterparts. After all, anarcho-capitalists really wouldn't have a problem with communes existing along anarcho-socialist lines within the anarcho-capitalist framework, as long as their isn't any kind of force. Heck, many anarcho-socialist/communist communities often operate like collectively owned mini-corporations within and alongside the current dominant state capitalist or democratic capitalist structure with people free to leave these communities at any time they feel like it's just not satisfying their needs.

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 No.20316

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>>20205

I'm not really that much of a monarchist, I think. Though I think I have more monarchist leanings than even most libertarian monarchists do.

But I also don't see a point in monarchist activism too much, because if monarchies are so natural, then they'll return in due time regardless of whether I personally do anything. I don't think the current globalized nation-state structure based as much as it is on republican/democratic ideals is very sustainable in the long run. Once this structure begins to collapse, I think anarchy and monarchy will likely remain in some sort of competing and/or symbiotic relationship, just as they have for thousands of years in different forms. So, anyone who would call for what Tolstoy may have called just a mere outer revolution of any kind, be it monarchist or leftist, at this point I think is probably just impatient and is likely impatient because they have their own self-interests they are desperate to satisfy.

The way I see it is like this: it's better that there's no governments at all and society is dominated by self-reliant individuals and voluntary & relatively classless collectives (classless in the sense that everyone is more or less of the same socio-economic status, to say nothing of a "spiritual hierarchy"), but I doubt total anarchy across the world is possible. In some situations, a government may be necessary to keep peace and protect the weaker and more helpless members of the society, but it's better at least in my opinion for that government to be a monarchy (along more medieval lines than absolutist or constitutionalist ones, but without devolving into complete technological primitivism or technocracy), and preferably a monarchy with the power and freedom to ruthlessly punish as they see fit the nobility and/or merchant class if they ever think of abusing the peasantry or artisan class.

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 No.20318

>>20314
>The utopianism, the political correctness, the radical social justice warrior internet cult, the tendency for the anarchist "something's not working"
We've already been there, done that; remember the nineties? Ted Kaczynski's manifesto was a socially conservative, primitivist reaction to all of that twenty years ago. You should look into Post-Structuralism; read some of Michel Foucault or Max Stirner's works to get an idea of how to identify the "power" of the state and utterly dismantle any utopian conceptions of socialism you may have. However, Stirner wasn't explicitly socialist; it does well enough to get a handle on today's post-left.
>After all, anarcho-capitalists really wouldn't have a problem with communes existing along anarcho-socialist lines within the anarcho-capitalist framework, as long as their isn't any kind of force.
https://www.reddit.com/r/DebateAnarchism/comments/3t3r8a/questions_from_an_ancap_socialism_in_a/cx31mjg

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 No.20323

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>>20318

>remember the nineties?


A lot of these millennials were born and raised in the 90's, which is why they are the way they are.

>https://www.reddit.com/r/DebateAnarchism/comments/3t3r8a/questions_from_an_ancap_socialism_in_a/cx31mjg


Eh, they both sound kind of stupid.

Nobody can ever seem to agree on what the hell each term means. Capitalists describe their form of capitalism only for socialists to say "Well, that's not REALLY capitalism!" Socialists describe their form of socialism only for the capitalists to say "Well, that's not REALLY socialism." And both will say the same to other fellow capitalists/socialists. Both self-described socialists and capitalists only really think in excessively logical and quite theoretical terms and are excessive "categorizers". They both have some trouble understanding human individuality, even if they pay lip service to individuals, probably because so many,especially in the anarchist community, are atheists or agnostics who deny or doubt the reality of the human soul (at least as a creation of God, excluding of course some self-described religious anarchists) and thus have little clue what makes human beings human to talk about what they need to actually do. At the end of the day it's probably all just a bunch of gibberish people have wasted more time and energy fighting over than human beings have over religion

I sometimes laugh with friends about how it feels sometimes like I'm an anarchist, socialist, communist, capitalist, monarchist, pacifist, militarist, aristocratic, primitive agrarianist cyberpunk. Just a mess of contradictions. What I know gives me center though is a basic religious core. I think I only respond more to such labels like anarchist though in their simplest of meanings and that's probably for the best considering that their more complex or precise meanings seem to get overly complicated and change like the wind every decade. Neo-reactionary probably is an accurate term too for myself, but I don't know anything about that term or what kinds of people it is associated with.

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 No.20334

>>20297
>This is what happened to russia in 1917.

Yes, one of the big takeaways from the Russian Revolution is to never trust a Marxist-Leninist.

>>20307
>As far as creating lasting movements anarcho-socialists and communists have always failed.

this is because anarchism as a movement can only really exist in a generally leftist atmosphere, and that is currently lacking.

>>20323
>"Well, that's not REALLY capitalism!" Socialists describe their form of socialism only for the capitalists to say "Well, that's not REALLY socialism."

I hate debates like that. Possibly the least productive possible conversation.

>Neo-reactionary probably is an accurate term too for myself, but I don't know anything about that term or what kinds of people it is associated with.


neo-reactionary basically means Donald Trump. Based on your previous mish-mosh of terms I don't think you fit the bill.

>>

 No.20335

File: 1449127528540.png (8.08 KB, 468x379, chart.png) ImgOps iqdb

>>20334

>this is because anarchism as a movement can only really exist in a generally leftist atmosphere, and that is currently lacking.


It is?

>I hate debates like that. Possibly the least productive possible conversation.


I think it reflects a bit of a problem with some of these modern ideological thinking. They definitely reflect the the more subjective post-Reformation atmosphere in which they have developed.

>neo-reactionary basically means Donald Trump. Based on your previous mish-mosh of terms I don't think you fit the bill.


If there are people in the areas of politics or sociology whose ideas I think I might respond to the most but to varying degrees, it's probably:

1. Erik von Kuehnelt-Leddihn
2. Rene Guenon
3. Leo Tolstoy
4. Hossein Nasr
5. Ali Shariati
6. Milton Friedman
7. Murray Rothbard
8. Peter Lamborn Wilson
9. Thomas Jefferson
10. Niccolo Machiaveli
11. Josip Broz Tito
12. Malcolm X
13. Henry David Thoreau
14. Ted Kaczynski
14. Josiah Warren
15. Edmund Burke
16. Frederick Douglass
17. Hassan Nasrallah
18. George Orwell
19. Ron Paul

Also, pic related. I think the real problem for me is being so (apparently) center and having all these different -ism's, none of which wholly apply.

>>

 No.20347

>>20316
> libertarian monarchists
Please tell me this is a joke.

>>

 No.20349

>>20347

They're mostly British libertarians who don't want to form a republic but still believe in a constitutionalist government of some kind.


>>

 No.20364

>>20359
A lot of their beliefs are pretty fuarrrkin' dumb, especially the ones that belief in straight corporatism (The CEO is king and Shareholder dukes and duchesses? This literally sounds like Shadowrun.)

That being said "Neoreactionaries believe “The Cathedral,” is a meta-institution that consists largely of Harvard and other Ivy League schools, The New York Times and various civil servants. Anissimov calls it a “self-organizing consensus.” Sometimes the term is used synonymously with political correctness. The fundamental idea is that the Cathedral regulates our discussions enforces a set of norms as to what sorts of ideas are acceptable and how we view history — it controls the Overton window, in other words."

Does hold some validity.

>>

 No.20374

>Anarcho-socialist
You meant Anarcho-Utopist

>>

 No.20375

>>20335
>It is?

historically anarchism has only gained traction in the midst of wider-scale worker mobilization and/or revolution. Otherwise it's just destruction.

>>

 No.20393

>>20359
>>20364

https://www.mises.org/library/libertarian-case-monarchy

mises.org also offers free digital copies of Erik Kuehnelt-Leddihn's pro-monarchichal works.



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