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“There will come a time when it isn't "They're spying on me through my phone", anymore. Eventually, it will be, "My phone is spying on me.””

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Anonymous 2015-09-18 08:05:59 No.15734 [Last 50 Posts]

call me a /pol/tard if you want but the huge stream of refugees got me thinking (i live in germany btw.) since alot of them come without passports nobody can tell who is really a refugee, who is in for the money and much worse who is a sleeper. i was asking myself how exactly would sleepers destroy our society? would it even be possible to have a breakdown of society in the middle of europe like it happens in syria right now?

another thing that interests me is how could a resistance be formed in a collapsed society without high tech. whithout internet most people are not even able to hold a friendship these days.

postend on /cyb/ because societies breaking down is pretty /cyb/.

Anonymous 2015-09-18 09:02:40 No.15737

Given the way those people act during war, I wouldn't be surprised if there were sleepers among the genuine refugees.

Anonymous 2015-09-18 09:04:29 No.15738

>>15734
fuck society

Anonymous 2015-09-18 09:51:00 No.15743

>>15734
>postend on /cyb/ because societies breaking down is pretty /cyb/.
not really

d8a 2015-09-18 10:08:48 No.15745

any time you post "Huge stream of refugees," we automatically assume you are from germany.

d8a 2015-09-18 10:12:23 No.15746

Also, look at the history of #opTunisia. The government shut all of the internet down. Completely. Those guys cyberpunked the internet back together with packet radio, mesh nets, and tor. They were shooting links in from italy and there was nothing anyone could do.

d8a 2015-09-18 10:22:04 No.15748

>>15745
>we automatically assume you are from germany.
that's a bit silly. I would rather assume Turkey or Lebanon

Anonymous 2015-09-18 11:07:57 No.15749

>>15748
did you just reply to your own post?

>>15746
i live in a quite small city. i doubt the people here would build a meshnet.

Anonymous 2015-09-18 13:49:20 No.15754

>>15749
>did you just reply to your own post?
Go find the opsec thread here... and on 8ch/cyber/

Anonymous 2015-09-18 15:10:51 No.15760

>postend on /cyb/ because societies breaking down is pretty /cyb/

only if it's from technology, not illegals.

Anonymous 2015-09-18 15:14:52 No.15762

>>15746
can you post some more info on this #opTunisia you speak of? Sounds really interesting

Anonymous 2015-09-18 15:29:31 No.15765

What the fuarrrk is a sleeper?

Anonymous 2015-09-18 15:34:27 No.15766

>>15765
Sleeper agent probably

Anonymous 2015-09-18 15:41:00 No.15767

>>15766
Terrorists?

Anonymous 2015-09-18 15:44:28 No.15768

>>15767
Im this case, probably referring to ISIS members.

Anonymous 2015-09-18 17:27:14 No.15774

File: 1442597234542.jpg (123.01 KB, 1024x662, jet_set_radio_future___gum….jpg) ImgOps Exif iqdb

I donated €10 via youtube (which is owned by google) which is raising money to give to 4 charity groups, Doctors without Frontiers being the main one.

I'm not sure if I fuarrrked up or not, but eh, I believe in giving to charity semi-regularly so I decided to do it.

I've been really disappointed lately with the amount of people being so quick to cheer closing the borders but so slow to do anything alternative to help the people.

It is very cyberpunk in *some* sense: People ignoring borders/states and muh finite resources to me are common themes of cyberpunk settings.

Anonymous 2015-09-18 17:51:03 No.15775

Countries should bring in refugees but keep them in designated areas where they can perform productive work for the host country and be watched closely, but should be given the freedom to return to their home country at any moment desired.

This would be seen as immoral by most of the world right now however, especially in Germany, and it doesn't appear as immoral to simply close the borders. It's really ironic.

Anonymous 2015-09-18 17:54:43 No.15776

>>15775
>Countries should bring in refugees but keep them in designated areas where they can perform productive work for the host country and be watched closely

...Like some kind of camp? With barbed wire fence and guards?[worry]

Anonymous 2015-09-18 18:56:39 No.15778

>>15775
op here. I dont like your idea. Everybody is welcome here(for me) if they want to integrate themself. This is only possible with a good integration system and stuffing all syrians together will only lead to a little syria community where noone is evenable to speak german. But this is off topic. Please inform yourself about human rights and inclusion (kinda an extended form of integration)

Anonymous 2015-09-18 19:39:49 No.15781

>>15734
>i was asking myself how exactly would sleepers destroy our society? would it even be possible to have a breakdown of society in the middle of europe like it happens in syria right now?
I saw this sentiment floating around some unsourced Youtube comments the other day. While there may be sleepers mingling among the throngs of refugees, I doubt that their proportion is in any way significant. I live in Germany and have had contact with a refugee from Nigeria. The amount of paperwork, legal work and the number of restrictions on these people are so incredibly high, that you literally can't do anything without proper paperwork.

Even if covert groups form within rich European countries, there is a very advanced and well-trained police force and army that can both weed out such hidden groups and deal with them in case of insurrections.

A greater problem to my mind are locals who parrot about a muslimisation of Europe and about "muh jerbs!". The touted influx of about 400 000 migrants will hardly shift the current population percentage of Muslims on the continent, which is about 4%. Self-righteous Nazi wannabes on the other hand, could easily cause ethnic tension.

d8a 2015-09-18 19:46:01 No.15782

>>15754
We're not crazy.

Anonymous 2015-09-18 22:19:04 No.15792

>>15778
>Integrate
Those are refugees, not immigrants, so in theory they are supposed to go back home after the conflict (if it ever ends).

Anonymous 2015-09-18 22:27:30 No.15793

>>15776
Perhaps not as unfriendly looking as that, but essentially yes.

You're not exactly in a choosing position if you're looking for refuge, and if you don't want to accept the refuge you're being given tough luck.

It's much better than just denying these people outright.

If I had an extra room in my home I'd let couch-surfers in my home without a problem, but that doesn't mean I'd let them eat my food without my express permission or claim rights in my home. They'd be restricted to whatever I say the restrictions are, and if they don't like it they can seek either another home or the street.

Anonymous 2015-09-18 23:39:16 No.15794

>>15737
>I wouldn't be surprised if there were sleepers among the genuine refugees
But this is nothing new.

I don't think countries with sound governments and well-funded, professional civil service should worry about that. The ones who should worry the most about the sleeper issue would actually be countries already in/on the brink of turmoil and piss-poor and/or highly corrupt states. So basically the majority of the Middle East.

Anonymous 2015-09-19 00:42:07 No.15798

>>15734
Considering that Germany has let in thousands of people in a very short period of time, many of them violent anyway, I think it is very likely that a terrorist organization would put inject even more violent individuals into the country considering the free opportunity to do so.

They are invaders, not refugees.

Anonymous 2015-09-19 03:56:03 No.15812

OP, are you interested in the military strategy of how ISIS operatives would destabilize Germany? Look up John Robb/systems disruption warfare to get an idea. Basically, modern society is based on centralized networks that have vulnerable choke points. By attacking those choke points you cause cascading failures that massively damage the network at very little cost to the attacker.

Have you realized though, that ISIS recruits from Western Europe? If they wanted sleepers they would have them, and Islamic extremists don't want Europe, they want the land that's culturally important to them.

Anonymous 2015-09-19 14:31:08 No.15821

>>15798
>many of them violent anyway
Source? I have yet to hear of violence from refugees

Anonymous 2015-09-19 15:15:33 No.15822

>>15821
There was the guy who stabbed a police officer a few days ago.

Anonymous 2015-09-19 20:18:33 No.15826

File: 1442693912899.webm (1.42 MB, 640x360, Your mind makes it real. ….webm) ImgOps iqdb

>>15822

>one guy going psycho

NOW that's what I call INVASION!!!

Anonymous 2015-09-19 20:36:38 No.15827

>>15826
I think this is it:
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34284044

Anonymous 2015-09-19 22:17:35 No.15829

File: 1442701055065.jpg (85.65 KB, 600x350, MuslimsIslamDominateWorldW….jpg) ImgOps Exif iqdb

This is a hijrah, a jihad by emigration. The European leaders who support taking in these migrants should be kicked out of office and tried for treason, for whether intentionally, or out of the good of their bleeding hearts, they are aiding ISIS in a grand scheme to conquer Europe. It is an absolute truth that there are ISIS soldiers among these migrants, ISIS themselves have confirmed it. However, it wouldn't even matter if there wasn't any, the plan would still succeed. Low birthrates in Europe and the constantly increasing intake of migrants per year will, within a matter decades, utterly destroy the homogeneity of Europe. Non-Europeans will, eventually, become the majority. I can't imagine all Europeans will like this. Prepare to see those lovely ethnic conflicts you see happening in 3rd world countries on television happening right on your front door step as nationalism, xenophobia and religious intolerance engulf Europe. There is no peaceful path to solving this crisis. We must either commit ourselves to another long, bloody war in the middle-east or buckle ourselves in for a much longer conflict right at home.

Anonymous 2015-09-19 23:32:32 No.15832

>>15826
You said you hadn't heard of any violence, I pointed a case out.

Anonymous 2015-09-20 19:32:04 No.15866

File: 1442777524640.epub (173.18 KB, Fighting for the Essence ….epub)

>>15826
Ignorance is not an excuse. If the size limit for webms was a little higher, I would post a video that catalogs multiple cases of violence and hypocrisy. These migrants are the dredges of third world countries. I don' know why a same man would expect any different.

European men better find their backbones soon.

Anonymous 2015-09-21 04:51:00 No.15906

>>15829
I only hope that Europe and the US stop this soykaf before it's too late.
I want to live to see these areas be great again, not littered with filthy immigrants that want to rape and behead people.

Anonymous 2015-09-21 09:37:36 No.15912

>refugees
they are refugees when they pass through one border and ask for asylum and help from that country
they are illegal immigrants if they pass through 5 borders and refuse to take on asylum from those countries, throwing a temper tantrum whenever passing through those countries is stalled, uses woman and children as empathy tokens that give them the sympathy of liberals in those countries, throw garbage on floor....
Multiculturalism never helped anyone, humans have tribalistic (ethnocentric) instincts whether they are black, white or yellow. Multiculturalism breeds conflict between the groups.

Anonymous 2015-09-21 14:44:19 No.15922

What's with all the popularism here? You guys got too lazy for research?

http://www.iza.org/en/webcontent/publications/papers/viewAbstract?dp_id=7282
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syria#Ba.27athist_Syria

And fuarrrking patriotism/sovinism/downright racism? What happened to deeming the meatspace outdated and irrelevant? fuarrrking rednecks, seriously.

Anonymous 2015-09-21 16:47:33 No.15929

File: 1442854053844.jpg (48.73 KB, 460x613, Refugee-joke-memes4.jpg) ImgOps Exif iqdb

>>15866
The ones who can afford to get to Europe were middle class in their own countries; lots of them holding university degrees.

Your comment boils down to "BROWN PEOPLE ARE VIOLENT". When tens of thousands of people are forced to abandon their homes, careers, families and everything constant in their lives to sneak across borders like jews avoiding nazis only to be met with barbed wire, tear gas and holding pens, a few cases of "violence and hypocrisy" are to be expected.
By focusing only on those you expose your own prejudice.

http://www.vice.com/en_uk/read/kleinfeld-refugee-memes-debunking-846

Anonymous 2015-09-21 16:58:53 No.15930

I just see this type of concerns as a natural reaction of humans to change.

Most of the fear mongering is baseless and its being exploited by political groups in order to win votes.

But with the exception of the real fascist movements that create discord I understand the uneasiness of the average European regarding the refugee crisis.

I think that receiving a boost of population is a great thing and Im jelly I wish my country received so many people.

Anonymous 2015-09-21 17:53:41 No.15933

>>15829
>people seriously believe this

Anonymous 2015-09-21 18:05:07 No.15934

>>15933
What's unbelievable about it?

Anonymous 2015-09-21 18:15:33 No.15935

>>15934
just about everything
I mean come on, these people are fleeing from their country because just about everything is like kicking dead whales down the beach there atm (if I lived there I'd try to flee too), not because they want to invade Europe or some shit
and if there's the odd ISIS guy in between we'll be able to deal with that too

Anonymous 2015-09-21 18:16:49 No.15936

>>15935
>like kicking dead whales down the beach
dank word filter wow

Anonymous 2015-09-21 18:39:19 No.15938

>>15930
I'm not an economics pro, but isn't a population boom bad with today's technology? I always thought that labor followed supply and demand laws, and that a smaller population would mean either higher wages or easier jobs when business make up for the lack of a workforce with mechanization.

That coupled with my naively romantic view of nationalism (maybe to do with that natural reaction to change you mentioned) makes me uneasy to see so many people coming to Europe. It raises the supply of labor past what's needed in Europe and lowers it below what's needed in their homeland.

Anonymous 2015-09-21 19:04:27 No.15939

>>15938
You know, you can google those things. But no, a lower population does not equal a higher pay, it does however surely decrease productivity, requires higher taxing to keep public services functional, which makes higher payed people (aka scientists, engineers, smart business people) migrate to other countries, causing the country's position in the global market to further weaken, which is kinda like a spiral of death in economics.

Anonymous 2015-09-21 19:39:44 No.15942

>>15935
Stop with the "poor hapless Syrians!" spiel. This is a critical crisis that must not be solved with the heart, it must be solved with careful logic. The fact is, Europe's welfare systems cannot handle a million migrants coming in every year, most of them cannot even handle the current one million. We are already seeing native Europeans getting the short straw as social welfare is prioritised to migrants. This is not going to be a one time batch of asylum seekers either. Now that Germany has opened the floodgate we are going to see a million migrants every single year. If we put all of our resources into bringing these people into Europe the stream of migration will never end. The only place to permanently solve this problem is in the countries from which the migrants are actually coming from, and that is where we must focus our attention and resources. Until we put a stop to this madness we will continue to see thousands of people drowning with their tin boats in the Mediterranean and more dead kids washing up on Europe's southern shores. Is that what you want? I'm sure that it must suck to live the countries they are coming from, but this mass migration just isn't the answer, and for many more reason other than those that I have outlined.

Anonymous 2015-09-21 20:38:22 No.15946

>>15734
The situation in Syria was engineered, among other western countries, by your own Germany. All the while they put in you the xenophobic fear you're displaying in your post.

Your leaders are a pack of looters and pirates that are destroying Europe now that the Middle East is wrecked (Syria was one of the last livable places left). Don't become a pawn in their game. Your condition as a working citizen is more defining than your condition of German or European. Don't side with those who would wave a flag in front of your nose while they bleed your brothers beyond the borders. Because one day it will be your turn, and there won't be anyone left to defend you from your own politicians.

Anonymous 2015-09-21 20:39:41 No.15947

>>15942
>social welfare is prioritised to migrants
You yourself are a migrant here, probably from 8chan's /pol/. Please don't bring your posion with you.

Anonymous 2015-09-21 21:23:08 No.15950

>>15942
Europe could have easily handled this. This is not a migrant crisis but a crisis of the European Union and their inability to act as an unified force in the face of serious problems. They would rather have the far-right rise to power and give up their supposed values than to cooperate with each other.

Anonymous 2015-09-21 22:00:06 No.15951

>>15812
Endgame is worldwide caliphate

Yes they are recruiting from within Europe, and it has been successful, but it would be foolish of them not to use this opportunity to send fighters into Europe right now

Anonymous 2015-09-21 22:02:57 No.15952

>>15947
Does having common sense make one a /pol/tard now? I'm going to assume you aren't from Europe.

Anonymous 2015-09-21 22:07:43 No.15953

>>15947
You, my friend, are the poison of this world.

Anonymous 2015-09-21 22:11:25 No.15954

Seeing people get assblasted over this is amusing

On one hand, I want to see the mythical millions of migrants stream into Western Europe
On the other, it would be equally hilarious to see them trapped in Eastern Europe of all places

Anonymous 2015-09-23 17:02:48 No.16084

>>15951
You're a total idiot if you think anyone in ISIS is fighting for a worldwide caliphate. And as John Robb points out, this means less "global superstate" and more the dissolution of nation states.

ISIS is lead by people with enough strategic acumen to know what they are actually fighting for, and for the next 10 years, they are going to be fighting for control over the Sunni regions of Northwest Iraq and Syria. This is the winnable battle.

God, are you really do dense that you think propaganda is a good indicator of military strategy? Lurk more.

Anonymous 2015-09-23 22:50:30 No.16101

File: 1443048630491.jpg (203.76 KB, 1280x727, refugees.jpg) ImgOps Exif iqdb

>>15821
> Violent protesters who don't respect the law of the land
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LD2BGT26qI

> Using women and infants as human shields
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36Psyly9VYk

> Religious nuts who will never integrate
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRhI0Xqv5Rc

> Terrorists:
http://www.ibtimes.co.in/syrian-refugee-tripped-over-by-hungarian-journalist-was-part-al-qaedas-nusra-front-647390

The list goes on and on. The fact is that >70% of these "refugees" are men travelling alone; most of them aren't even from Syria. The picture the media paints of women and children and families fleeing from the Syrian war is for the most part fabricated[1]. These are economic opportunists, many of whom are coming straight out of the arms of ISIS and Al Qaeda.

1. http://www.breitbart.com/london/2015/09/21/analysis-bbc-pictures-show-53-migrant-kids-just-36-men-out-of-step-with-reality/

Anonymous 2015-09-24 01:23:08 No.16109

The most /cyb/ thing about this is the amount of psyops on the web to heighten fear of Muslims. Divide and rule.

Anonymous 2015-09-24 02:08:06 No.16111

>>16109
Muslims do that without any help

Anonymous 2015-09-24 02:29:40 No.16112

>>16109
I'm from a small-ass euro country and even our forums are full of stories of the migrants behaving like soykaf . I doubt our govt is big or smart enough to organize a campaign to this degree

Anonymous 2015-09-24 04:14:00 No.16114

>>16109
I feel like it's only partly psyops - as >>16112 has said there's already a lot of anti-islam sentiment before the government gets involved.

Anonymous 2015-09-24 06:07:45 No.16121

>>16112
It's mostly done by activists of far-right parties.

Anonymous 2015-09-24 18:58:51 No.16172

>>16121
See: >>16101

People are afraid of Muslims because Muslims are not very nice people to be around, and you can easily see this for yourself if you stop letting your ideals blur your vision. Take it from someone who lives in a city with a huge Muslim population. Their culture is the worst of the worst.

Anonymous 2015-09-24 23:05:29 No.16177

>>16172
so he should let your ideals blur his vision in place of his own?

Anonymous 2015-09-25 02:17:06 No.16183

>>16177
He's a Euro, so chances are his eyes are where he got his ideals

Anonymous 2015-09-25 04:14:13 No.16188

>>16177
No. He should use his senses to observe the world around him and come to his own conclusions instead of shutting everything out and believing that the world is the place he desperately wishes it to be. Clearly this is the case, given this comment >>15821

Anonymous 2015-09-25 05:07:18 No.16190

>>16188
>if you don't see it like I do you're clearly not coming to your conclusions and you are delusional.

Anonymous 2015-09-25 05:07:37 No.16191

>>16190
own conclusions*

Anonymous 2015-09-25 05:09:44 No.16192

>>16190
>>16191
You're delusional if you don't believe most of these refugees are violent young men who are not with their families. There is tons of documented proof.

Anonymous 2015-09-25 05:18:37 No.16193

>>16192
80% are military aged men by themselves.

A year ago, ISIS said they'd flood Europe with refugees with thousands of disguised combatants.

They weren't fuarrrk ing around.

Anonymous 2015-09-25 05:36:21 No.16195

>>16192
There's footage of desperate people in abysmal circumstances trying to get to the place they believe is heaven on earth. Of course this will cause uncivilised behaviour and of course there are rotten elements in that group. What did you expect? Thousands of people and they're all angels?
You're acting like a pack of gorillas is storming Europe. As long as they leave behind their Islam crap, I don't see the problem with helping them. Syria was a nation like any other before the war, it was not a wasteland with wilderbeasts drinking from little puddles.
There's still a difference between helping people and catering them. I don't want islamic values here in Europe but I also don't want to turn down people fleeing war. You can shelter people without building a mosque on the corner of every street, but well I guess fear mongering is easier.

>>16193
>thousands of disguised combatants.
Isis is losing, they can't spare thousands of combatants, plus they recruit from western countries and they already try to commit terrorist attacks, they don't need refugees to do that.
Or do you mean that they are storming Europe? With that unarmed, heavily outnumbered group?

Anonymous 2015-09-25 06:13:56 No.16200

>>16195
>You're acting like a pack of gorillas is storming Europe

Actually they are acting like a pack of gorillas storming Europe. Watch some of the videos on youtube.

> As long as they leave behind their Islam crap, I don't see the problem with helping them

Agreed. But they won't leave behind their Islam crap because that's the basis of their culture and an integral part of their identity. They're throwing away aid from the Red Cross because a cross is a Christian symbol for fuarrrk s sake. How much more self-entitled and arrogant could they be? These are not the sorts of people to simply integrate.

> I don't want islamic values here in Europe but I also don't want to turn down people fleeing war.

Most of them are not feeling war. The majority of them are not even from Syria according to UN's official stats. I'm not against taking in legitimate refugees who have nowhere to go, and I think all children along with their parents should be taken in. But that is a very small portion of the overall number.

Anonymous 2015-09-25 12:00:13 No.16214

>>15734
I dunno man, have you considered emigrating to the middle east as a sleeper to destroy their societies?

Anonymous 2015-09-25 12:10:31 No.16216

>>15734
I'm in the same boat. I kinda hate illegals who don't come into other countries legally. Call me a pol tard but I'm not. I don't care if they apply for visas and get admitted into the country even on humanitarian grounds, just as long as they do it legitimately.

Anonymous 2015-09-26 09:39:27 No.16244

>>15746
I've been to Tunisia for my summer holiday a couple of years ago and I heard the same stories. Tor? Heck, a lot of people bought internet connections just to riot on Facebook and stay informed. That was something new for the government, they couldn't stop it.

Anonymous 2015-09-26 18:27:43 No.16259

File: 1443292063739.webm (2.45 MB, 640x360, edgy.webm) ImgOps iqdb

>>15929
>Your comment boils down to "BROWN PEOPLE ARE VIOLENT"

>That exposes my prejudice

Pulled from wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_and_crime

>A study of crime statistics published in 2014 found that among males between the age of 20 and 24 descendants of non-Western immigrants had a crime rate 2.6 times greater than those of Danish origin

>According to official statistics, 21.0% of rapes have been committed by foreigners in Finland. Foreigners comprise 2.2% of the population.

>A 2006 study found that the share of immigrants has a positive and significant impact on the crime rate, confirming that a larger share of immigrants is associated with a higher crime rate. The data implies that this may be caused by the higher unemployment, and thus worse socioeconomic conditions among immigrants. However, unemployed persons born in France are still far less likely to commit crimes than unemployed recent immigrants.

>Immigrants in Germany are overrepresented in crime statistics. In Berlin, young male immigrants are three times more likely to commit violent crimes than their German peers.

>A report studying 4.4 million Swedes between the ages of 15 and 51 during the period 1997-2001 found that 25% of crimes were committed by foreign-born individuals while and additional 20% were committed by individuals born to foreign-born parents. In particular, immigrants from Africa and South & Western Asian were more likely to be charged of a crime than individuals born to two Swedish parents by a factor of 4.5 and 3.5 respectively.

Statistics are not prejudiced anon.

I mean this affectionately, but use your head.

Also, vice is terrible. It's cool in the same way that call of duty is edgy. Find a better news outlet.

Anonymous 2015-09-26 18:36:14 No.16260

File: 1443292574743.jpg (33.72 KB, 600x401, 1383304042110.jpg) ImgOps Exif iqdb

>>15929
Also
>Jews avoiding Nazis

Had to get that one in huh?

Anonymous 2015-09-27 03:54:38 No.16273

>>16195

>theyre acting violent because they can't illegally get into a place that their ancient religion tells them they have a right to go, so its justified

>>16216
Same. I dont give a soykaf about people for their skin color, their beliefs play a role in what I think about them, but honestly I hate people who illegally barge into a country and demand they be treated like the people who have always been there or who worked hard to do it the legal way,

Anyone who sympathises with these people should really look into the statistics and videos all around regarding the situation. These people aren't mass amounts of families, they arent old and sick and dying, the majority of them are young men. A lot of them arent even from Syria for fuarrrk 's sake.

Anonymous 2015-09-29 01:33:55 No.16361

>>15935
Don't even bother. Lainchan was going to attract these edgy teens eventually. It was always inevitable.

Anonymous 2015-09-29 02:51:44 No.16363

>>15935

Even ISIS only claimed they had 20,000 among the some 600,000-800,000 refugees. But that's unlikely considering that's 20,000 not fighting in Syria and Iraq and would make up a significant fraction of their milita. Unless that's their way of admitting they're losing.

As far as crime stats one dude mentioned above. If these are true, I think they may result from things other than religious extremism most of the time. A lot of young male migrants that come to Europe aren't really all that religious: they smoke weed, they drink, they fornicate, if they're Muslims they probably don't even know how to really pray. Their beef seems to be with "white people" and "Europeans" not so much "infidels". At least that's my observation.

Anonymous 2015-09-29 03:01:58 No.16366

tbh I think it's dangerous to allow them all in. Europe is taking too many refugees in and these people are coming from a country that considers the west their enemy. Why doesn't Russia take them in instead since they are allies with Syria?

Sometimes pretending you're so high and mighty and accepting will kill you. Don't trust so easily. Number one rule for life. Just because these European countries are relatively peaceful doesn't mean their not an enemy to ISIS. They side with America and work towards western goals for the world.

Go ahead and call me /pol/ or racist. I'm sure you'll make the excuse one bad apple doesn't spoil the bunch when an ISIS sleeper agent kills hundreds of people. Lives matter, send them to an ally country.

Anonymous 2015-09-29 04:07:02 No.16371

>>16195
>Isis is losing
>Controls enough territory to be considered their own nation as a terrorist organization.

They own more of Syria than Syria does atm.

Anonymous 2015-09-29 04:27:11 No.16373

>>16366
>these people are coming from a country that considers the west their enemy. Why doesn't Russia take them in instead since they are allies with Syria?

because the person in charge is allies with Russia the people are strongly against his rule, that's why they are fleeing to Europe, Also about population if a full 1,000,000 came in tomorrow, the whole population of Germany is 80,000,000 as a whole, 80X greater than the population currently coming in.

The real problem is
A) should Germany and the rest of Europe will allow them to stay?
B) With the sudden influx where do we get the money to support them.

more than likely they will move them back after the conflict is over or if they are well educated and support economic growth Germany will allow them to stay.

All in all, it depends on how fast the Syrian crisis ends.

Also, the current Muslim population is 6% (http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/01/15/5-facts-about-the-muslim-population-in-europe/) wouldn't even increase a whole percent.

That being said all and all Germany's Chancellor does have a duty to hold and send back all the asylum seekers after the conflict, BECAUSE asylum is ONLY temporary!

Anonymous 2015-09-29 04:41:52 No.16374

>>16373
That doesn't answer the question. Why doesn't Russia take them in? Is the Syrian government so insane that they don't want them to leave the country while a war is going on?

This is a battle between rebels and government.

Anonymous 2015-09-29 05:24:00 No.16375

>>16361
>Not rolling over when millions from the third world are illegally occupying your homeland

>edgy

Your ancestors went through hell in the crusades so you could belittle their efforts by welcoming Mohamed with open arms and fertile daughters.

Anonymous 2015-09-29 05:25:57 No.16376

>>16374
>Why doesn't Russia take them in?
because they side with the government, meaning it would upset the Syrian government who they are allied with.

Assad doesn't want people to except refugees, and blames the west for creating them.

Anonymous 2015-09-29 05:28:49 No.16378

>>15947
>You yourself are a migrant here

>A public chan is the same as social democracy

I'll make sure to put my visitor allocated thread post credits to good use lainion.

Anonymous 2015-09-29 05:42:16 No.16380

>>16376

to be fair to assad, almost half the 23 some odd million Syrian population has either been killed or displaced. Those some 4 to 5 million refugees constitute a significant portion of the population which will be needed if Syria ever hopes to rebuild at all.

And Russia has been taking some refugees in since the start of the crisis, but Russia is more concerned with ending the war, not giving insurance so the war can continue.

The best thing for the Syrian refugees is to make Syria safe for them to go back home. But Europe is only concerned with questions on how to accommodate for the refugees and distribute them among themselves.

Anonymous 2015-09-29 12:33:59 No.16387

>>16380
>Russia is more concerned with ending the war
Russia is concerned with prolonging the war. Because how else our government is supposed to sell their AKs?

Anonymous 2015-09-29 19:10:49 No.16416

>>16387

It's in nobody's real interest to prolong this war. Even the US was hoping it'd be a short operation to get rid of Assad.

Anonymous 2015-09-29 20:10:12 No.16420

>>16387
Russia's only concern here is keeping Assad in power. Syria is a valuable ally to Russia and the current war is only destabalising their influence in the Middle East. I wish NATO and the USA would fuarrrk off and let Assad win the war. Their insistence that he be removed will only prolong the war by years, bring us closer to a new cold war, further fuarrrk up Europe, and in the end, if the west wins, the regime that is installed afterwards will lose power just as quickly as those installed in Iraq and Afghanistan, creating further conflict. A Syria by an authoritarian dictator is better than one ruled by ultra radical religious fanatics hellbent on destroying the west.

Anonymous 2015-09-29 20:20:17 No.16423

>>16375

I'm not white, and if you think European cultures can't survive the refugee crisis then you have a very low opinion of European cultures.

Anonymous 2015-09-30 03:07:38 No.16448

>>16259
savage.

I'd send them back. Glad Germany shut it's railways down.
Just because your country is going to soykaf and you won't stand and fight against it doesn't mean you get to run to another country far away to get their free soykaf .

That's not how this works. I might give a homeless man some money when I pass but I'm not going to let him get a room in my house and fuarrrk my wife.

If your enemy is Isis I'm sure america would love to proxy and support your cause with thousands of guns and weapons.

Anonymous 2015-10-01 00:29:52 No.16497

>>16448
>If your enemy is Isis I'm sure Russia would love to proxy and support your cause with thousands of guns and weapons.

ftfy

Anonymous 2015-10-01 01:49:00 No.16506

>>16497
Yeah pretty much

Anonymous 2015-10-01 01:51:21 No.16507

>>16259
to be fair, this has nothing to do with race, it's just a side effect of immigration.

Anonymous 2015-10-01 02:02:12 No.16510

File: 1443664932085.png (10.19 KB, 1370x100, WAKE ME UP.PNG) ImgOps iqdb

>>16259

Pic related has popped up since I used the wiki article in my other post. Sleazy zionist sympathizers.

Anonymous 2015-10-01 02:13:39 No.16512

File: 1443665618872.png (139.22 KB, 1728x967, Migrant info.PNG) ImgOps iqdb

>>16507
>this has nothing to do with race

You're empirically wrong. Who exactly do you think is immigrating? Because it isn't the Japs. This is all taken from wikipedia mind you, which is about as politically correct as they come. Doesn't surprise me they're hearing out motions to censor statistics on the other article

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_Europe

inb4 these statistics get cited as "problematic" and "controversial" too.

Anonymous 2015-10-01 02:26:54 No.16514

>>16512
>Who exactly do you think is immigrating?

people with next to nothing, who are statistically more accurate to commit crime.

Correlation does not imply causation, as skeptics are so apt to say.

Anonymous 2015-10-01 02:27:18 No.16515

>>16514
s/accurate/likely

don't know how that slipped through.

Anonymous 2015-10-01 02:52:02 No.16517

File: 1443667922597.webm (7.66 MB, 569x320, Manditory Cultural Enrich….webm) ImgOps iqdb

>>16514
>Correlation does not imply causation

You can only go so far with statistics when you maintain this as a philosophy.
They are poor because the country that their culture created is unstable and violent. You can blame this too on proxy wars of the developed world, but is that really an intellectually honest argument? I would say no.

There's geopolitical reasons that the immigration crisis is being universally praised in the media. They're censoring anyone who objects and running stories they know are false. It's plain to see this. You have to make your own informed decision anon. Ask yourself "What reasons could the owners of the media have for pushing positive public opinion of the immigration this heavily?"

I have soykaf to do, and I don't want to devolve this board I like very much into more brewing soykaf , so I'm out.

Here's a propaganda video that got a million or so views before it was quickly whacked by youtube.

Anonymous 2015-10-01 03:33:39 No.16520

>>16517
>They are poor because the country that their culture created is unstable and violent.

Syria was stable before, maybe not the most free, but it was pluralistic and fairly liberal society that was starting to come up, that is until Obama and al-Saud stuck their fingers in the Syrians' potato salad and started enabling radicalized Iraqi Sunnis and Europeans, Tunisians, Moroccans and Libyans with a touch of Chechens to come to Syria for jihad against the "Alawite-Safavid heretics (even though most of Syria's army is Sunni Arab". All with the shekelmeisters urging them on and doing some courtesy bombings in Syrian territory.

>There's geopolitical reasons that the immigration crisis is being universally praised in the media. They're censoring anyone who objects and running stories they know are false. It's plain to see this.

It's because those who have interests in continuing the Syrian conflict want to focus on the need to take in these refugees rather than addressing the reason why the Syrians are pouring into Europe in the first place and finding a way to return them home. The US has been plotting to overthrow the Assad family for years and now is practically forcing Europe to pay the costs of their screw up. Instead of owning up to that, American media and politicians are blaming Bashar and European racism for the refugee problem when any country should have the right to refuse large numbers of refugees that will become a burden on its tax system and people.

Arab countries don't like being forced to take in large numbers of Palestinian refugees when Israel's wars displace them, but Israel, instead of owning up to its mistakes, blames them for the sorry state of the Palestinians ('it's your fault Jordan, Lebanon, Egypt for not taking all the Palestinians and letting us take their clay'). Same principle is happening here. The people whose crusading against Bashar aren't owning up to their part in ruining Syria and instead are deflecting criticisms by pointing at the racist Europeans and those European governments who have played a role in escalating the conflict are trying to turn it into an issue of Europeans needing to be more open and multicultural and tolerant etc. But nobody wants to seriously address the issue of why almost half of Syria has been slaughtered or displaced. Probably because certain people know they'd have to address their own actions. It's easier to say "it's all because Bashar didn't step down" or "it's all because Russia supported Assad" or "it's because Europeans are still too racist"

Anonymous 2015-10-01 04:06:46 No.16521

>>16517
Thanks for the perspective. I completely agree. Just about the best summary of the issue that I've seen. Sometimes I get too caught up in how infuriating it is and forget who is pulling the strings.

Anonymous 2015-10-01 04:07:40 No.16522

>>16521
Meant for
>>16520

I made this post
>>16517

Anonymous 2015-10-01 18:02:29 No.16556

File: 1443722549785.jpg (31.08 KB, 800x598, Gypsies.jpg) ImgOps Exif iqdb

>>16517
Whoa, is that really what's going on over there right now? Mein got am I an uninformed American right now.

Is it true that the indigenous Brits have officially become the minority this quickly? No fuarrrk ing wonder all the Eurofags on /x/ and /pol/ and have been fuarrrk ing trying magick of all things to get rid of them. And it doesn't even look like they're joking about it either, they really are that desperate.

No soykaf ....

Anonymous 2015-10-01 19:14:48 No.16559

>>16556
No, it's cherry picking and scaremongering by the far-right.
It's bad, but not nearly this bad.

Anonymous 2015-10-01 21:40:55 No.16560

>>16559
Facts are not scaremongering.
55% of London are not white nor ethnically British:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_groups_in_London#2011_Census

37% weren't even born in the UK.

If you don't think that's a problem for British people to address, and address very quickly, that's your own view, but most people don't want to flood their land with outsiders.

I don't even give a fuarrrk about race-mixing or any other that other /pol/ shit, but I still think most of country's capital should be populated by it's native population.

Don't close your eyes and ears just because you don't like what you hear.

Anonymous 2015-10-01 22:03:01 No.16561

>>16559
Narrative spouting drones will be calling it fear mongering right up until **and including when** Europe becomes South Africa lite.

Anonymous 2015-10-01 22:16:50 No.16564

Anonymous 2015-10-01 22:59:01 No.16565

>>16564
How the fuarrrk is that even humored as something to consider?
Holy soykaf Europe, get your soykaf in order.

Anonymous 2015-10-01 23:36:25 No.16569

>>16560
>I still think most of country's capital should be populated by it's native population
You should go travel the world. Wherever there is exchange of goods, services and banking there will always be foreigners doing their businesses there. London has become a global hub so there is no reason to have an only British population there. If you don't like it then do cry in Manchester.
Source a dirty foreigner entrepreneur living in your capital.

Anonymous 2015-10-01 23:59:38 No.16570

>>16560
If you go far enough in history, almost no place is populated by its original population. Following your logic, all of america should be still populated by the original indians, and good luck finding your original Britons (which are also mixed).

Anonymous 2015-10-02 01:52:37 No.16571

>>16569
Natural flow of people attributable to goods and services is in no way comparable to the sort of subsidized and politicized immigration to Europe that we see today.

>>16570
>Following your logic, all of America should be still populated by the original Indians

That's a drastically different issue. There's some dispute as to the first settlers of the Americas. However, I'd agree with the statement that the Indians' genocide was immoral and regrettable. You imply the opposite in your post. Using the mistakes of the past as justification for current actions is stupid. Additionally, Indian culture was much less developed and was objectively more primitive, so in the respect of progress alone, the Indian genocide has at least a leg to stand on, as opposed to what we see in Europe today, which is precisely the opposite.

Anonymous 2015-10-02 01:56:03 No.16572

>>16569
>I still think
>still

Progressiveness is not unanimous with progress. Western Europe is in and has been in cultural and economic decline for a long time.

Anonymous 2015-10-02 17:50:30 No.16598

>>16571
> the Indian genocide has at least a leg to stand on
Just because a culture is less developed doesn't mean it's ok to be wiped out from earth. It's just basic ethics. Plus what defeated Native Americans wasn't the "more advanced civilization", it was the pox.

Europe as a united whole is a joke, Germans won't withstand Italians or Spaniards and won't allow them to have a job easily, Brits won't stand other Europeans. If you were to find a job in a different state in America you could do it without much hassle. and that's the problem with Europe.

Europe's population has been dwindling for a long time, this is just the product of that policy of xenophobia and closed borders to everyone even other Europeans that just recently Europe has been trying to fix.
And now Europe is stuck with a neverending flow of Muslim immigrants and won't be able to assimilate them because of their autistic culture. Just compare America, they also have Muslims but their 2nd generation migrants are Americans plan and simple, on the other hand Germany also has Turkish immigrants who not even now define themselves as German, and Germans don't even consider them Citizens, not even their grandchildren.

So Europeans had the chance to prepare before the current crisis started by becoming a more progressive place but they preferred their old ways so Europe'll have to deal with it.

Anonymous 2015-10-02 18:03:19 No.16599

>>16571

The culture you are claiming was primitive was basically a post Apocalypse people living after s
Disease destroyed their entire civilations. Its dangerous to say the culture as a whole was more primitive when they were ahead of euros not on technology but social issues like rights of women. Your argument has been issued since the beginning of time to justify genocide and taking over lands. The Communists could claim we are primitive because we arnt communist, Muslims could claim not recognizing the truth of Islam is primitive etc. While there is some interesting discussion to be had about how technology grew in parallel in some cultures and in others a tipping point lead to an explosion of innovation and discovery. Simply calling other cultures primitive is dangerous and you should reconsider letting your mind fall to such dangerous thinking, you might find yourself supporting a maniac one day.

Anonymous 2015-10-02 20:19:22 No.16609

>>16599

Another trap is also believing that the worth of a civilization is determined by the quantity of its technological and scientific advancements.

A lot of people tend to take violence as a good barometer, but then more technologically advanced civilizations would have to be considered "primitive" when you consider how much death was caused during conflicts like the World Wars in which the major powers involved were the most advanced civilizations of their time in terms of science and tech.

I think words like radical, moderate, primitive, etc. tend to have too much fluidity to really be very useful these days.

Anonymous 2015-10-02 21:00:16 No.16614

>>16598
I'm just passing by in this thread and I don't really have a stake in the matter but this posts has so many flaws.

>Just because a culture is less developed doesn't mean it's ok to be wiped out from earth
He wasn't suggesting that. He literally stated the opposite and called the genocide immoral.

>it was the pox.
We deliberately gave them blankets covered in pox, it doesn't at all seem right to blame the pox.

>Germans won't withstand Italians or Spaniards
Vast majority of Germans are fine with either.

>Brits won't stand other Europeans
Vast majority of Brits are fine with Europeans.

Don't get me wrong there are some racists everywhere, and plenty more people with economic or cultural reasons for disliking immigration but as blanket statements these are just plain untrue.

>If you were to find a job in a different state in America you could do it without much hassle. and that's the problem with Europe.
That's how it works in Europe as well. Citizens of any European Union country can live and work in any EU country.

>Europe's population has been dwindling for a long time
No it hasn't. http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/File:Population,_EU-28,_1960%E2%80%932015_%28%C2%B9%29_%28at_1_January,_million_persons%29_YB15_II.png

>this is just the product of that policy of xenophobia and closed borders to everyone even other Europeans that just recently Europe has been trying to fix.
There's open borders for everyone in the EU and it's been like that for years.

>have Muslims but their 2nd generation migrants are Americans plan and simple
It's mostly the same in Europe. Just to note America has had these exact problems with Irish immigrants.

>Germans don't even consider them Citizens, not even their grandchildren.
The vast majority of Germans are happy to call them citizens.

>So Europeans had the chance to prepare before the current crisis started by becoming a more progressive place but they preferred their old ways so Europe'll have to deal with it.
Or that's just something you dreamt up and then made up a bunch of clearly factually incorrect stuff to support.

Anonymous 2015-10-02 22:47:14 No.16615

>>16598
>>16614
I'd like both of you to cite sources if it's not too much trouble.

Anonymous 2015-10-02 23:38:15 No.16616

>>16609
what words would you propose we use instead? an awful lot of language is subject too fluidity

determining worth of countries is the failure I think. for what means?

Anonymous 2015-10-03 02:01:28 No.16623

File: 1443837688239.jpg (4.89 KB, 152x224, 1427946927976s.jpg) ImgOps Exif iqdb

>>16599
>social issues like the rights of women
>calling other cultures primitive
>you should reconsider letting your mind fall to such dangerous thinking

What has Lainchan come to?

Anonymous 2015-10-03 02:40:22 No.16625

>>16623
It's not the chan itself. It's the content of the topic. All times things like this are discussed, strong opinions arise.

I study computer engineering in a global top 50 university and as you can imagine, 80% of the people there are extremely educated and polite. But last year in a sociology discipline I saw some of those so educated folks screaming like baboons at each other because politics.

Anonymous 2015-10-03 04:34:36 No.16632

File: 1443846876582.jpg (17.76 KB, 400x278, Manife4.jpg) ImgOps Exif iqdb

>you will never force the savages off of god given land
>you will never purge the country of scalp hunting injuns
>you will never dominate a culture so thoroughly they will be reduced to running casinos for the next two centuries
Color me disappointed.
Whinge about how immoral manifest destiny is all you want. If you don't use the resources available to you then you shouldn't complain when they're taken from you.

Anonymous 2015-10-03 04:46:17 No.16633

>>16623
Chummer, you have to remember some things.

When that poster says
>social issues like the rights of women
they are not necessarily talking about what many would put under the umbrella label of "social justice," but about good things. Women voting. Women not being property. Women being able to do things for themselves, such as driving or holding a job.

Women are humans too. Remember, though we see extremist views much too often online, the non-extremist versions of said views often are either helpful or benign Such as types of social justice; it isn't all about SJWs.

Tying my ideas here back into the idea of immigrants; some places need "feminism." I'm not talking about Europe or the Americas, but moreso the Middle East and parts of Africa. Some of these people are the ones fleeing to other countries.

Anonymous 2015-10-03 07:09:13 No.16638

>>16623
if the phrases "social issues" and "rights of women" in the same sentence give you a feeling of dread I don't think the problem is lainchan

Anonymous 2015-10-03 07:39:52 No.16640

>>16633
I'm the one that posted that and yeah I was referring to things like native women being able to own property and being seen more than just a thing to be owned like europe saw them at the time. Yeah I think a lot of college "feminists" give the whole women's right movement a bad name but even in the US they still need feminism look at how planned parenthood and the right to an abortion is being attack again. I don't think it's worth bitching about earning such and such on the dollar compared to men when really classism is a better target for that. Looking at the stats is also obvious when you are a double minority (black/woman) (woman/queer) you get a mix of the two that is greater than either oppression. However, like I said radfem is awful and this is getting off topic.

When I said calling other cultures primitive is bad, I didn't say it out of some liberal indoctrination, primitive usually refers to a section earlier in evolution. It is simply not accurate to say primitive because strip them both naked and take away the tech and you get the exact same species.

Anonymous 2015-10-04 06:04:18 No.16688

>>16632
>If you don't use the resources available to you then you shouldn't complain when they're taken from you.
So because native americans didn't slaughter the buffalo to extinction, strip mine the land and put smoke spewing factories everywhere means that they deserved to be invaded, killed with extreme prejudice and on top of that be crowded onto tiny plots of land afterward?

Anonymous 2015-10-04 06:12:47 No.16689

>>16640
man there's a radfem group on my school campus I've heard some horror stories about them apparently

I'm thinking of going to one of their meetings to see what the fuss is about. hopefully they don't kick me out for having a penis or something like that

Anonymous 2015-10-04 06:13:14 No.16690

>>16689
I agree though we definitely need feminism

Anonymous 2015-10-04 07:58:52 No.16691

Everybody forget about Ukraine, huh?
Refugees aren't really my problem, because there is nothing much I can do against it - good thing I am leaving Europe, things are getting worse with every year.

Anonymous 2015-10-05 02:00:02 No.16722

>>16640
> It is simply not accurate to say primitive because strip them both naked and take away the tech and you get the exact same species.

Our tribal ancestors were also the same species, but no one would argue that they were primitive, because they were by definition.

There are a set of primitive behaviours. When those behaviours are widespread in a culture, we can accurately say that the culture is primitive, or at the very last, has primitive practices.

This isn't about dehumanizing them. I don't think anyone argues that if those people were born and raised in a western country they would still be primitive by virtue of their background.

Anonymous 2015-10-05 03:58:17 No.16728

stop. this is the exact same sentiment that turned the USA and UK into police states. would not be surprised if certain organizations were involved with disseminating the message.
>>15922
they've been slowly moving in on the board. just like OP suspects of foreigners. haven't you ever heard the old phrase, that we most suspect in others what we would do ourselves?

Anonymous 2015-10-05 04:29:28 No.16729

>>16728
>would not be surprised if certain organizations were involved with disseminating the message.

This line of thinking is dismissive and intellectually lazy. People are voicing legit concerns using empirical evidence.

Anonymous 2015-10-05 05:02:44 No.16731

My town is 2/3s Arab now. It's changed so much in my short 25 years. It's unreal. I feel like my future has been taken from me.

Anonymous 2015-10-05 06:43:53 No.16735

>>16688
Sure if that's the way you want to look at it, but I prefer to think of the fact that we got the wonderful civilization we have today because our predecessors didn't really give two fuarrrk s about whether or not it was right to push the savages off their land.

Anonymous 2015-10-05 14:07:06 No.16759

>>16614
>it doesn't at all seem right to blame the pox.
Nearly all scholars now believe that widespread epidemic disease, to which the natives had no prior exposure or resistance, was the overwhelming cause of the massive population decline of the Native Americans.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_history_of_indigenous_peoples_of_the_Americas#Depopulation_from_disease

Anonymous 2015-10-05 14:17:23 No.16762

>>16759
Nobody is denying that it was disease, just saying that it's important to note that we gave them these diseases, in some cases deliberately. This was not just an act of nature it was an act of biological warfare and genocide.

Anonymous 2015-10-05 14:52:54 No.16766

>>16571
>Natural flow of people attributable to goods and services is in no way comparable to the sort of subsidized and politicized immigration to Europe that we see today.

Yes, it is just look at the data from other countries that are also global or local hubs (UAE, Qatar, Luxembourg, Singapore, Switzerland, etc) they're above 30% of foreign-born population, whereas the UK is merely in 12%.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/which-countries-have-the-most-immigrants/

Anonymous 2015-10-05 15:52:45 No.16771

>>16729
the OP's line of thinking is intellectually lazy, and if enough people believe in it Germany will become yet another panopticon. you can kiss the CCC goodbye

Anonymous 2015-10-05 19:02:24 No.16796

>>16766
You're comparing a bunch of city-states to a former empire...? Totally different context.

Anonymous 2015-10-05 19:59:10 No.16797

File: 1444075150463.jpg (110.38 KB, 548x768, 1431153609102-3.jpg) ImgOps Exif iqdb

>>16599
>The Communists could claim we are primitive because we arnt communist, Muslims could claim not recognizing the truth of Islam is primitive etc. While there is some interesting discussion to be had about how technology grew in parallel in some cultures and in others a tipping point lead to an explosion of innovation and discovery.

I explicitly said that I thought that the genocide was regrettable and immoral. However, in respect to technology, architecture, shipbuilding, and other scientific fields that can be judged empirically, the Europeans vastly outclassed the natives. Bringing amorphous concepts like ideology and religion into it clouds the issue. In those respects, yes the "We're more advanced so we'll conquer you" argument has no factual basis and is purely rhetoric. That is not always the case though.

>Simply calling other cultures primitive is dangerous

Admittedly, it may not be an adjective to throw around so carelessly, but there are empirical ways to determine mathematical and scientific knowledge of chemistry, medicine, science, ect.

>You might find yourself supporting a maniac one day

I've met no man who's judgement of character I trust more than my own.

Anonymous 2015-10-05 19:59:50 No.16798

>>16762
>we gave them these diseases, in some cases deliberately
Except they didn't even know germs existed then. It doesn't at all seem right to blame scientific knowledge that didn't exist

Anonymous 2015-10-05 20:03:48 No.16800

>>16691
>there is nothing much I can do against it
>Good thing I am leaving Europe, things are getting worse with every year.

Deserter

Anonymous 2015-10-05 20:07:18 No.16801

>>16796
all of them are currently countries regardless of their history , in fact UAE has 1/3 the area of Germany, Brunei 1 and 1/4 times the size of Germany. Australia has more foreigners than Germany and the UK, New Zealand has more foreigners than Germany and the UK.
If you deny numbers there is not much it can be done for you. "He who refuses to do arithmetic is doomed to talk nonsense."

Anonymous 2015-10-05 20:12:10 No.16802

>>16766
>Cites two other countries in Europe

>mypoint.jpg

I think rate of grown of foreign born populace would be a more telling statistic, although that would be a harder one to get current data for.

Anonymous 2015-10-05 20:15:07 No.16803

>>16802
You're the living proof that lain can't Statistics

Anonymous 2015-10-05 21:47:22 No.16818

>>16632
>>>/4chan/

Anonymous 2015-10-06 01:07:03 No.16829

>>16803
As the world becomes more global, we can both agree that nationalism is on the decline worldwide. The debate is over whether it is a negative or a positive.
Also, were you planning on refuting my post or were you just going to go ad-hominem?

Anonymous 2015-10-06 07:21:00 No.16857

>>16803

What's with people thinking basic math is statistics on this site? Analyzing data != Observing data.

The difference is between observing a rock and alyzing it's chemical composition.

Anonymous 2015-10-06 16:09:38 No.16887

>>16829
Nah, man I'm just gonna leave it there. I presented data suggesting that major commercial hubs worldwide tend to have more foreign population to which the reply was the data was irrelevant because one of them used to be an empire and the others not despite their size, population and the fact that they are recognized countries and no other confounding factors were present. To which the reply was "but there are two other European countries which proves my point" and "there should be a grown of foreign born populace statistic" because that data would be "real". To which I replied that you can't do statistics because if you can't accept data that is there and just ignore it due to your own interpretation of the world instead of building a model around it (you can't just throw away data because you don't like what it says) to which I got a reply about some soykaf about nationalism which I haven't said a single word and about differences about observation and analysis. So there is not much to argue about if you present data and it is discarded because someone didn't like it, of even worse to reply with something unrelated.

Anonymous 2015-10-07 18:11:08 No.17001

>>16798
there was no knowledge of germs, but they were well aware that being around sick people = you get sick

Anonymous 2015-10-26 18:23:56 No.18217

>>15762
ditto

Anonymous 2015-10-26 22:00:05 No.18243

>>15734
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration/11842760/Prepare-yourselves-The-Great-Migration-will-be-with-us-for-decades.html

Anonymous 2015-10-27 03:52:51 No.18260

>>16798
America's education system teaches it's students that the Europeans gave the indians contaminated blankets intentionally. I don't mean to imply that this counts as proof, but take it for what you will.

Anonymous 2015-10-27 03:55:15 No.18261

>>18260
>>18260

America's education system is also really, REALLY, bad for anyone reading.

Anonymous 2015-10-27 03:59:25 No.18262

>>18260
my education system never told me that. all they said was
>the colonists tried to trade with the indians but didn't realize they were giving them diseased blankets
knowing the soykaf that europeans have pulled in the past I seriously doubt that was an "accident"

Anonymous 2015-10-27 04:35:18 No.18265

File: 1445920518813.jpg (30.12 KB, 400x400, [www.lain.ht.st]_art071.jpg) ImgOps Exif iqdb

>>16887
First of all, other lanions' posts have been peppered in with mine. I did not make the first post regarding London, and I did not refer to the Britts as an empire

Secondly, on my mention of nationalism

The dynamic of nationalism vs internationalism is at the core of the discrepancies in our views. I am arguing for a country's right to a degree of homogeneousnes, and you are arguing the contrary, saying it is unrealistic and unnatural. Nationalism is in this way intrinsically tied to the rights of a people to remain secular. That's what we have been talking about.

>data on rates of minority growth as apposed to a country's levels of immigration rates would be more "real"

You act like I'm refuting the fact that globalization results in higher flow of people through a land. I'm not. A "natural flow of people due to goods and services" implies that the immigrants are trading and doing business with a country. The majority would not be integrating and assimilating into the culture long term. Immigrants that are in a country to conduct business by and large would still have ties to their homeland. Now we are back to my point,

>Natural flow of people attributable to goods and services is in no way comparable to the sort of subsidized and politicized immigration to Europe that we see today.

That is why I said the rate of growth of minority populations would be a more pertinent statistic to our discussion. It would largely compensate for the natural flow of peoples attributable to a major trade hub. I'm not "rejecting data because I don't like it". I was pointing out an extraneous variable. And in response you're trying to brush my legitimate points aside as petulant refusal of what's been presented, which is resorting to an ad-hominem logical fallacy.

Anonymous 2015-10-27 05:35:04 No.18267

>>15734
Just evict every single person who isn't genetically German. Problem solved.

Anonymous 2015-11-03 07:38:25 No.18660

This is all engineered by capitalists to fuarrrk over the working class. Think about it for a moment. Have you seen factory and company owners and investors worried or complaining about immigrants? Of course not, lower wages are a plus. Cheap foreign labor is best. Increased tensions between workers also increases competition in the market. Why do you think the US is stirring soykaf in the Middle East? And you, by attacking immigrants and fighting between yourselves, are fixing nothing. Know your real enemies. Attack the ones who are engineering and profiting from this, not other victims. That's all.

Anonymous 2015-11-06 03:42:08 No.18824

>>18660
Whoa, that's a bitter red pill.

Did American capitalists arrange the Arab spring to break European labor? That seems so doable...

Anonymous 2015-11-06 03:43:06 No.18825

>>17001
Fucking seriously, Indian genocide apologists? Get the fuarrrk back to pol.

Anonymous 2015-11-06 03:47:50 No.18826

>>18260
The answer is, like in most cases, it was both intentional and unintentional.

The unintentional part is that, lacking exposure to European diseases, the native Americans became very sick very quickly after just being exposed to normal environments for the Europeans. Only one of them survived the first passage back to Europe, for example. So the Europeans quickly figured out that the Americans were, if not weak to European diseases, weak to disease in general.

Then, when negotiation became difficult, they'd trade blankets that were used by children who contracted measles or pox or other common diseases, and watched as the Americans died of plague.

This is pretty well documented; the only example I know of is Lord Amherst but I'm sure there are others.

Anonymous 2015-11-17 02:03:11 No.19477

File: 1447725791870.jpg (25.98 KB, 400x343, feels batman.jpg) ImgOps Exif iqdb

>>16101
>These are economic opportunists, many of whom are coming straight out of the arms of ISIS and Al Qaeda.

>2015-09-23

No sympathy Anonymous 2015-11-17 04:47:15 No.19486

Maybe its because I'm an american and I'm relatively used to a heterogenous society, but I have no sympathy for the EU bitching about losing their homogenous society.

We have more illegal EU immigrants than you have refugees and fuarrrk ton more illegal Latin americans but no one is complaining about them establishing a catholic papacy or undermining the fabric of our society like EU fascists are whining about Syrian refugees establishing a caliphate and enacting sharia law.

Do you really think your societies are too fragile to handle a few thousand more strangers? We did that soykaf when we took you in. But if you think your culture is too weak to assimilate them then go ahead and vote more fascists into power cause that always works.

I'm honestly disappointed in my nation for not taking in more refugees. We could settle them in Detroit and the rest of the rust belt and they would be grateful for the chance to not be decapitated or blown up at any second.

Anonymous 2015-11-17 05:39:56 No.19487

File: 1447738796117.png (333.73 KB, 605x816, aceface.png) ImgOps iqdb

>>19486
>but no one is complaining about them establishing a catholic papacy or undermining the fabric of our society

wh-what?

Anonymous 2015-11-17 06:45:35 No.19490

>>19486
Yes, the hispanics have a long history of blowing themselves up, beheading people, and trying to convert the entire planet to their religion, lest they kill everyone trying.

Anonymous 2015-11-17 07:22:21 No.19492

>>19486
There's no homogeneous society in Europe, every country is full of minorities. Some even like to shoot at people and blow things up.

Anonymous 2015-11-17 19:40:02 No.19516

>>19486
I hear you bro, as a Murrican who lived in Euroland for 4 years (not anymore tho I'm in college now.) I totally get your point. I probably would go as far as to say that there are far more legal immigrants in America than refugees in Europe. But the problem with Europe is that precisely, assimilation. In America a son of immigrants is American, period (inb4 anchor baby Trump rant.) But in Europe, for instance Germany or France, it is completely normal for people to say "oh yeah I'm Turkish but I was born in Germany", it's never I'm German. Because not even 3 generations later immigrants feel European. The autoperceived French cultural exceptionalism and the "muh masterrace" are real, in fact, I can even say that I've witnessed more racial discriminatory acts in France and Germany against minorities (insults, beatings, etc.) than I've ever witnessed in America, and I am from the South.

Anonymous 2015-11-18 06:01:16 No.19534

>>19490
>the spanish never had a history of violence, religion or colonialism
>>19492
you know who likes to shoot people even more? majorities

Anonymous 2015-11-18 06:03:15 No.19535

>>19534
Don't make me pull the statistics on you.

Anonymous 2015-11-18 06:07:13 No.19536

>>19516
>>19486
I agree. I feel like the parallel to popular anti-immigrant sentiment in Europe is Donald Trump in the United States, and he's basically a joke that wins votes :/.

It's weird how politics in the United States versus Europe works - over there, they seem to be more socialist while we're less racist.
>>19535
this discussion has happened before, with proper error analysis and adjustment for sample size you have no case. no, I don't want to see the graphs you got from /pol/.

Anonymous 2015-11-18 06:29:14 No.19537

>>19536
>uh oh, he's gonna use facts on me, better call him a /pol/tard, quck!

Anonymous 2015-11-18 06:54:44 No.19538

>>19537
So you don't actually have any statistics. I'm glad we had this discussion

Anonymous 2015-11-18 06:59:17 No.19539

>>19538
You told me you didn't want to see them. I guess shouldn't have taken your statement seriously, then.

Anonymous 2015-11-18 10:17:56 No.19543

>>19539
my statements aren't the only thing you're taking too seriously..

Anonymous 2015-11-19 02:06:24 No.19576

File: 1447898783986.jpg (145.28 KB, 569x600, 569px-Codex_Magliabechiano….jpg) ImgOps Exif iqdb

>>19490
Hispanic here, yeah we do have a history of decapitating people. soykaf was cash while it lasted.

Anonymous 2015-11-19 04:27:28 No.19581

>>19576
You still have a history of decapitating people.
See drug cartels.

Anonymous 2015-11-19 14:20:19 No.19585

>>19581
And yet no one in America believes Hispanics will go to America to behead people.

Anonymous 2015-11-19 16:11:47 No.19588

>>19585
considering Mexicans have lived in California since before it was part of the US, and I've never heard of a Mexican here decapitating someone, I don't think it's likely.

Anonymous 2015-11-19 16:14:39 No.19589

>>19585
I mean, ms-13 certainly happened that way. It's not like Hispanic immigration to the US has been all kumbayah and cheap labor.

There's a big difference between a refugee crisis and a porous border, though. Syrian refugees can't control where they'll end up, so that can't plan things like bringing their gangs (that well at least) and they're not going to be able to smuggle drugs.

Anonymous 2015-11-20 09:05:52 No.19617

File: 1448010352607.jpg (9.67 KB, 200x210, 200px-Dogcash.jpg) ImgOps Exif iqdb

>>16735
>the wonderful civilization we have today

Anonymous 2015-11-20 17:16:44 No.19621

>>19487
Yes that's about how ridiculous I believe the claims of a European caliphate are.

Anonymous 2015-11-20 23:18:11 No.19625

>>16361
Are you implying that 'cyberpunk' is NOT ment to be edgy?
Please don't tell me that this is ture.

Anonymous 2015-11-21 07:03:09 No.19630

>>19625
sure, but there's a fine line between edgy and stupid that gets crossed all the time.

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