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File: 1428995528343.jpg (85.86 KB, 569x400, emacsvim.jpg) ImgOps Exif iqdb

 No.5498[Last 50 Posts]

What are ya hacking with, /λ/?
>>

 No.5499

nano for life

>>

 No.5500

Vim, NeoVim as of recently. I'm jelly of Emac's scripting, but I find Vim much easier to use, at least in the beginning.

>>

 No.5501

Is this a survey of what people use?
(Rules: No religious wars. I see this is more just sharing what we use but I hope people understand that later in the thread. The war part might give some the wrong idea.)

I typically use emacs by force of habit. Starting to use Atom when available lately. It's quite pretty and comfy with a decent set of packages to install.

>>

 No.5502

ed is the standard editor.

>>

 No.5503

Emacs. Was a light vim user before, but decided to travel the lisp way and emacs made more sense.

Still value my vim knowledge though, since it is installed in many more machines than emacs.

>>

 No.5504

90% vim 10% emacs

>>

 No.5505

I haven't tried Emacs but so far I am enjoying Vim, might probably transfer to Neovim too just to see it and also maybe contribute to it.

>>

 No.5506

File: 1429017313721.png (239.1 KB, 512x512, emacs.png) ImgOps iqdb

Roughly the same as >>5503
Emacs is amazing.

>>

 No.5507

I used to use Geany, but then I switched to Vim and haven't looked back.

>>

 No.5508

>>5499
This, fuarrrk the haters.

>>

 No.5510

Vim with Voundle managing this plugins:
AutoFold - to un/fold blocks of code
Syntastic - informs of syntax errors without you having to manually compile the file
EasyMotion - vimperator-like search
vim-easy-align - to align, for example the '='s in a list of definitions
vim-multiple-cursors
vim-airline - better than powerline
vim-sorround - to quickly sorround stuff with ( ), " ", etc

Voundle manages plugins from http://vim-scripts.org/vim/scripts.
There's a lot of them, if I'm missing a good one please tell.

>>

 No.5511

Might get called a fag, but any tips for some one starting out? I'm running Kali, and thought I might check on Vim.

>>

 No.5512

>>5508
nobody hates you, you're just probably slightly slower then you would be in vim

>>

 No.5513

>>5510
>essential
NERDTree
vim-repeat
emmet.vim and closetag if you ever work with HTML
>nice to have
taglist (depends on language)
ack.vim
fugitive
ultisnips
protodef for C++
fswitch for C/C++
csv.vim is a nice-to-have if you frequently open CSV files

Also,
>vim-multiple-cursors
Do you use that often? I seem to have it installed, but I've never used it. I just never feel like I need to type at multiple places at once, :'<,'>s// is usually enough for me.

>>

 No.5514

>>5510
>>5513
Oh and
YouCompleteMe is supposedly awesome, but I don't think it's supported on Windows (although it may work)
Ctrl-P is supposedly nice, too, but it's unusable on Windows (slow as quack)

>>

 No.5516

>>5511
>Might get called a fag
nope. sure, do install vim. vimtutor should be included, try that command, it's a tutorial on what people were thinking when they designed the vim keyboard scheme. moving with HJKL and so on.

speaking of that, vim is designed to be used by people using all 10 fingers to type, just fyi
i'm a bit ashamed about my own incompetence :x

>>

 No.5518

>>5503
>since it is installed in many more machines than emacs.

Vim is not, you must be thinking of regular Vi, which is kinda soykafty.

>>

 No.5519

File: 1429037855530.jpg (208.42 KB, 1280x720, tumblr_mke21nZVzk1rkyckdo1….jpg) ImgOps Exif iqdb

i used vim for about 6 months and only was proficient in moving the cursor and opening and closing files

i think i'm gonna switch to emacs

>>

 No.5520

File: 1429039823088.png (347.69 KB, 1920x1080, emacs_cheatsheet.png) ImgOps iqdb

>>5519
A wise decision, my friend, as even if you miss Vim's features, you can emulate them in Emacs with Evil Mode.

>>

 No.5521

>>5513
Thanks for the list!
I use the multiple cursors, but AFAIK they're completely replaceable with built-in function.

>>5514
I tried ucompleteme but I kept firing it up when trying to use tab for indentation. Maybe should try again mapping it to some other key.

>>

 No.5522

I used vim for about a year up until now. I switched over to emacs a couple of years ago.

Nothing can beat the almighty Ctrl+e evaluation and seamless REPLs.

>>

 No.5523

>>5522
s/years/weeks
fuarrrk my english

>>

 No.5525

Hey guys! I've been trying out Vim for a few weeks and it's been amazing! I love how I don't have to use the mouse now (That was the main purpose of it). How is Emacs like? Should I give it a go?

>>

 No.5526

>>5525
Give it a shot.
It's a very different type of editor from vim; I'd say the keystrokes are just as easy to learn, but they will feel different.

It also depends on what you want to do. IMO vim is better for editing config files and the like.

emacs is a must for writing in lisps or other languages that have a runtime environment, as you can add code then immediately evaluate it right inside emacs. Vim has some plugins that sort of give this functionality, but it's much more awkward. Emacs is pretty much plug-and-play in this way.

When writing C code or something similar I find that I want to compile everything in a shell outside of my editor, so either editor works just as well for that.

>>

 No.5529

I use Vim with lots of plugins or whatever you call them. Vim has lots of cool hidden advanced features if you learn it.

I'm going to be picking up Emacs for the next few weeks just so I can say I've tried both, though. I've been a Vim user for 5+ years and it feels wrong to have never used emacs.

>>

 No.5530

>>5526
Yeah, I mainly do C/C++ coding and find that both editors basically offer me the same thing.

>>

 No.5534

Emacs is a pretty fabulous OS… I just wish its text editor were a bit better.

>>

 No.5539

>>5534
so tired of this joke

>>

 No.5540

File: 1429141772761-0.jpg (78.18 KB, 1280x720, photo_2015-04-16_01-44-38.jpg) ImgOps Exif iqdb

File: 1429141772761-1.jpg (162.65 KB, 1280x720, photo_2015-04-16_01-44-44.jpg) ImgOps Exif iqdb

>>5539
you can hardly blame him for the first part
http://www.informatimago.com/linux/emacs-on-user-mode-linux.html

it's also a fabulous text editor, but somehow ive been too stupid to get the vim key bindings into emacs, anyone do this?

>>

 No.5541

generally i use vi/m for edits and emacs for projects, though most of my projects are in common lisp so that might be why. emacs is especially nicer for things with a repl for interactive coding. i might choose vim for a line-based language (i.e. pretty much everything besides lisp) if it was compiled only and didn't yet have a shiny emacs plugin i could get with package-install

>>

 No.5570


>>

 No.5571

>>5570
Sh​it, didn't mean to reply.

>>

 No.5573

Vim.
But time to time I would start a VM and do soykaf in Emacs.
Still haven't decided which one is better. Both are quite equally good and both are quite equally soykafe.

>>

 No.5579

This one is interesting too.

http://foicica.com/textadept/

>>

 No.5592

vim, the controls make a lot of sense to me and I wouldn't really have it any other way. I like Lisp but Emacs' control scheme is just horrible for me.
I tried Spacemacs today and quite liked it, I think I'll have to take some time to customize and get used to it to make it my daily driver but I think it might replace vim for me one day.

>>

 No.5593

>>5592
> ut Emacs' control scheme is just horrible for me.
Can you elaborate on that? I feel somewhat the same way although I haven't used Emacs enough to state that really. Vim controls are more consistent to me.

>>

 No.5602

>>5593
Well, to put it simply, I don't like key combinations. I much prefer vim's approach, and the shortcuts make sense. There's a few articles about it too.
Moreover emacs has much more stuff bundled in it by default and I have no idea where to start, it looks like a clusterfuarrrk and I feel overwhelmed every time I start it up.
I probably haven't used Emacs enough either, but I love vim's style and I don't see why I should change.

>>

 No.5605

https://github.com/martanne/vis
It's pretty usable. Has a few problems that need to be worked out though.

>>

 No.5614

As an admirer of acme's simplicity, my heart breaks a little every time I remember how much vim is, well, the polar opposite. As nebulous a request as it is, I would adore a vim clone which made a clean break conceptually and tried to reconcile its various ideas. Too bad I'm too lazy to write it myself.

>>

 No.5616

>>5614
Look at the post above you.

>>

 No.5622

I normally use emacs, however it seems to not work well for some languages (like php).

Will probably end up using vim for some languages, unless I find a work around.


Is there a way to make tabbing in vim work like emacs, where instead of each tab moving it one tab over, instead it sets it to where it should be in relation to the rest of the code?

>>

 No.5625

>>5499
>>5508

<3 my brethren

>>

 No.5627

>>5499
>>5508
>>5625

Very much yes.

>>

 No.5633

Hack the rainbows-delimiters extension for Emacs to make the colors better.

Mismatch:

'((((background light)) (:foreground "color-82"))
(((background dark)) (:foreground "color-82")))


More rainbow-like:

(light-colors ["red" "color-68" "yellow" "green" "blue"
"cyan" "color-33" "color-66" "color-29"])
(dark-colors ["red" "color-68" "yellow" "green" "blue"
"cyan" "color-33" "color-66" "color-29"]))


I don't like using customize-group so I did this instead.

>>

 No.5636

>>5602
> Moreover emacs has much more stuff bundled in it by default and I have no idea where to start
Funny you should mention this. I've heard exactly the same about Vim.
Do as I did when I tried Emacs. Start with the built-in tutorial. It's good. Quite good. Try new stuff step by step. Don't fear using the menu, it will hint you the key sequences to do various soykaf.

>>

 No.5638

>>5499
Only good command line text editor. If you need anything heavier use a real IDE.

>>

 No.5639

Notepadd++

>>

 No.5642

File: 1430005341920.png (90.97 KB, 694x348, standard_text_editor1.PNG) ImgOps iqdb


>>

 No.5650

nano
mousepad lol
geany

tfw scared of vim

>>

 No.5652

>>5616
Vis is really nice, but not really what I meant. It's just Vim with a lot less code and options as opposed to doing some interesting things with the vim "formula". And again, what I'm hoping for isn't really more than a gut feeling, at least until I think about it some more, but in my opinion vis and vim both aren't it.

>>

 No.5727

What are some must-have packages for emacs?

I really like undo-tree.

>>

 No.5730

>>5727
I use spacemacs. Comes with quite a fair bit of everything built-in.

>>

 No.5731

>>5636
To be honest, I hate tutorials with a passion, I'd rather just look things up as I go, which is what I'm doing while using Spacemacs. I think it's pretty cool, it has lots of nice stuff built in by default (and I'm talking about base Emacs, not the Spacemacs-specific things).

>>

 No.5745

echo

>>

 No.5746

It seems like the only programs I have open these days are firefox and emacs.

>>

 No.5875

>>5746
Can emacs browse the web? I'm just curious.

>>

 No.5876


>>

 No.5931

>>5731
Neither do I love tuts, but they give a base. And that's exactly how I did with Emacs—didn't even finish the tut.

>>

 No.6037

>>5727
Rainbow-delimiters
Paredit

>>

 No.6137

>>5642

that's the greek leter eta…

This is the greek letter nu: ν.

>>

 No.6151

>>6137
Nano users aren't smart.

>>

 No.6603

Vim for life. Why don't you use fuarrrking vim?

>>

 No.6605

I tried Vim a few years ago, but even after months of using it I couldn't get used to its modal nature. It breaks my flow all the time.
Once I tried Emacs, I never looked back.


>>5727
Ido for a more usable M-x.
Alternatively helm, but helm is a beast of a package.

>>

 No.6606

I learned programming at first with TextWrangler and Terminal, switched to Vim with Tmux (in iTerm) pretty early and a few months later to Emacs with evil. Knowing Elisp really enhances things but I feel like I could get by without it just fine. That said, being able to write useful extensions so easily just makes things better. I use Emacs for things like IRC now too, I don't think I've had to open another Terminal for anything in awhile.

>>

 No.6626

Vim, usually. But sometimes I only have access to vi on a given box. That's one of the good things about vi- it's installed on just about every *nix installation that will still boot.

>>

 No.6865

>>5510
>>5513
>>5514
I personally prefer using CtrlP to NERDTree, and NeoComplete + Jedi-vim instead of YouCompleteMe,

>>

 No.6900

One thing I'll throw out is that I really love vim with my tiling wm. I have multiple vim tabs, multiple terminals (vim, build, execute tests) and sometimes multiple windows depending on how complex the tests are and how much other stuff I have to view. Going through the whole thing using only my keyboard is amazing.

>>

 No.6902

File: 1434950857966.jpg (238.69 KB, 1920x1080, hack-the-console.jpg) ImgOps Exif iqdb

>>5498
I'm hacking with a knife, duh.

>>

 No.6972

Emacs for Lisp and Haskell
Vim for editing in shell
Sublime for pretty much everything else

Make love, not war.

>>

 No.6974

THIS is the website to go to get colorschemes for vim http://bytefluent.com/vivify/

>>

 No.7018

>>6902
Hold X to hack

>>

 No.7036

>>6902
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

>>

 No.7043


>>

 No.7045

>>7043
Not just yet, once they have the lua bindings up and running and i can use my vim plugins i'll switch.

That or i will once they build a cool gui, I'd endure vanilla vim to test something like that.

>>

 No.7046

>>7043
I was using it for a few weeks a month or so ago. There are (probably) no changes to the basic workings, so you won't even notice unless you look into :version. Although, one thing I noticed is that it seems *a bit* faster, and working with large files also seems a bit smoother.

I switched back to vim only because I was using the package from AUR and when I went to update/recompile it one day, the dependencies were all screwed up. I can't wait for a stable release, though.

>>

 No.7050

>>7043
I do, if only because of :term.

>>

 No.7076

File: 1435426087856.png (198.99 KB, 1357x736, lain-in-editor.png) ImgOps iqdb

>Easily able to put lain inside my editor

Atom:1
Everything else: 0

>>

 No.7078

>>7076
I dont see the editing advantage over sublime text, yeah Atom is open source, that's not bad, but Node is slow and I rather not haul a whole web-browser around for just editing.

>>

 No.7080

>>7078
I think because it is based on a web browsers a lot of capabilities for cool packages and themes wouldn't be possible in sublime text. But it does have a slow startup but after that it pretty much smooth sailing.

>>

 No.7084

>>7076
Sweet deal, yo.

>>

 No.7085

File: 1435429453133.png (164.97 KB, 1366x768, scrot_2015-06-27-143542940….png) ImgOps iqdb

>>7076
Tell me more.

>>

 No.7088

>>7085
Well played, but I still feel HTML/CSS/Javascript is a much more sane option then Elisp

>>

 No.7089

>>7088
Nothing beats having a Lisp environment as flexible and powerful as Emacs'. Javascript is a joke.

Also if Emacs Lisp isn't your thing, there're different Emacs builds that run on CL, Guile, etc.

>>

 No.7090

>>7088
>XML anything
>sane
>Javascript
>sane
>Any dialect of Lisp
>not a God-tier language

>>

 No.7095

>>7085
Confirmed Emacs for being an operating system.

I was a bit flummoxed when I found out Emacs can display images.

>>

 No.7097

>>5540
>emacs as OS
That's more or less what I did with my raspberry pi.

>>

 No.7133

>>7097
How was it?

>>

 No.7137

>>7133
I didn't have a USB hub or internet so whenever I wanted files I had to unplug the keyboard or mouse and stick a USB stick in. I don't think I was making the most of it. Poorfags gonna poor.

>>

 No.7162

>>7137
I'm doing something similar with mine, but I've got StumpWM running through ClozureCL.

>>

 No.7179

>>5540
I use evil-mode. Just add
(require 'evil)
(evil-mode)

to your .emacs

>>

 No.7182

I started getting into vim just a few months ago and am mostly using it for the vimwiki Plugin.

But now I'm trying to get into emacs because of its greater "compatibility" with Lisp.
However the reason I didn't use it earlier was the, for me, clunky way of editing. Vim just flows so much better with its modes.
Thats why I'm trying Spacemacs now.
Still have a great deal to learn but it seems fun already :)

>>7018
What's this in your name? Coffee?

>>

 No.7184

>>7179
Not him, but I've always hated "vim mode" for any IDE that isn't Vim. It never has the same key bindings. At least one common hot key is broken.

>>

 No.7185

File: 1435702138467.jpg (956.32 KB, 2560x1551, exciting.jpg) ImgOps Exif iqdb

>>7162
That looks awesome.

>>

 No.7186

>>7185
I use stumpwm with sbcl, it has some graphics issues with two monitors. Could be my graphics card though

>>

 No.7188

>>7184
evil is a pretty good clone though.
If something does not work like in vim, you should submit a bug report, they take this serious.

>>

 No.7189

>>7184
hack it so it has what you want then, that's the whole point of emacs

>>

 No.7191

>>7189
I'd rather just learn the Emacs key bindings. So I did.

>>

 No.7192

>>7076
>>7085
lol'd

>>7179
>>7188
thank you i will try evil
its perfect because i use vim for server admin but i have time to mess with lisp and try to make my emacs feel like an IDE for a new language i will learn

>>

 No.7216

>>7192
If you work on remote machines, look up TRAMP mode

We're not trying to assimilate you, promise.

>>

 No.7228

Vi is a lovely modal editor scheme. That's it. All its plugins and stuff are hacks that supplement this role.

I think the best setup is to use vi keys inside your development environment which doesn't have a half-assed extension architecture. That means Emacs or some other IDE specialized to the language/ecosystem.

>>

 No.7319

>>7228
UNIX was originally marketed as UNIX/PWB - Programmer's Work Bench. The neat thing about the shell is the raw power associated with it which helps you build your own 'IDE' custom for your needs very rapidly. Now that programming is grown up so much and there are so many IDEs this is a very much under-appreciated trait since you can just install whatever IDE other people in your group/language are using and it's pre-configured to kick ass.

I still like using UNIX as a dev environment, it can be pretty cool. I use vim as the editor, usually write my code in C (numerical simulation- high performance) and use a perl script to process the inputs, and write the output to .jpgs I can render in an HTML. It's a great little work flow, and using vim and a tiling wm I don't even need a mouse to go from writing to building to running and then post-processing.

>>

 No.7337

File: 1436283492662.png (57.76 KB, 1340x1040, 2015-07-07-183529_1340x104….png) ImgOps iqdb


>>

 No.7368

>>7319
Unfortunately Shell makes a lot of things awkward to express, while maintaining a lot of the complexity of its C/BCPL origins.

I imagine that the split between the systems/scripting languages came from the difficulty of writing a fast interpreter or ineractive compiler for C that was fast enough to be reasonable for OS development on the hardware available at Bell in 1969.

This split also makes much of the underlying functionality of the system difficult to access without tossing in a flag for every function in a program.

This is why I prefer Lisp and Emacs.

>>

 No.7370

>>7368
>ineractive
Interactive
fuarrrking microsoft ergo keyboard

>>

 No.7379

File: 1436374325340.png (497.63 KB, 1600x1523, you-tried.png) ImgOps iqdb


>>

 No.7383

Vim breaks my flow with modality: type something happily, spot error somewhere, forget to exit input mode, type garbage, exit input mode, fix error, forget to exit command mode or miss esc, accidentally delete and mangle unknown portion of code. Has happened too many times. I also started thinking more about how to string commands than about programming.

I also find it very difficult to configure compared to Emacs, because Emacs has in my opinion vastly superior internal documentation and configuration language.

>>

 No.7386

For some reason when I want to code lisp, I only use emacs (for obvious reasons), but when it's time to use C or bash it's like I'm hardwired to use Vi. Even opening a file, say foo.c my first instinct is to press i before #include<...

>>

 No.7389

>>7179
actually, on what distro does that actually work? surely you need to do http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/Evil

or at least i had to on debian. in words, add emacs package sources, install evil, and THEN add evil mode to the .emacs

>>

 No.7393

File: 1436412433052-0.png (10.65 KB, 536x261, 2015-07-09_04.58.24-Disabl….png) ImgOps iqdb

File: 1436412433052-1.png (51.2 KB, 960x1040, 2015-07-09_05.08.54-~.png) ImgOps iqdb

okey so two things

this post is helpful for emacs people
https://www.masteringemacs.org/article/disabling-prompts-emacs
it's not actually about disabling the prompts but being able to press y instead of typing yes is nice.


i was also really mad that said prompts are in DARK BLUE of all colors

and because i was on windows/cygwin it was annoying
but i finally found out that cygwin is using the mintty shell and that this https://github.com/mavnn/mintty-colors-solarized exists so that's nice

okey guys now that i got vim bindings and colors and less annoying prompts i will make an effort to be productive

sadly i don't understand how to make this http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/ProgrammingWithPythonModeDotEl#toc2 thing run python3 by default when i press C-c C-c

i put this

(autoload 'python-mode "python-mode" "Python Mode." t)
(add-to-list 'auto-mode-alist '("\\.py\\'" . python-mode))
(add-to-list 'interpreter-mode-alist '("python" . python-mode))


into my .emacs following the instructions and now i'd like to bind py-execute-clause-python3 to C-c C-c

>>

 No.7394

okey i got it working

(global-set-key (kbd "C-x C-x") 'py-execute-clause-python3)

overriding the other shortcut set by the python thing doesn't work though
doesnt seem to work

>>

 No.7395

Mastering Emacs is a good book for you Vim users who are curious to learn more about the Emacs Philosophy.

>>

 No.7405

>>7393
(fset 'that-other-python-command 'py-execute-clause-python3)

...should do it.

>>

 No.7406

>>7393
Why are you running it inside a terminal?

>>

 No.7408

>>7407
Because vim is so dependent on basic keys being there. You can't really go around rebinding everything.
Example-scenario: vim plugins might need that one key that was free just before you realized vim kinda is like kicking dead whales down the beach for javascript and installed some plugin to remedy, so now neither work as supposed. vim plugins are stupid like that. it becomes a massive mess. trust me, been there, tried that.

>>

 No.7412

>>7408
I don't use a lot of plugins and I binded <AltGr + letter> to the symbols in an OS-level, so I don't have experience with dealing with conflicting plugins or finger fatalities.
Still, there are other solutions that require less work than learning a foreign layout, like using different config files for some languages. But perhaps switching to US layout is simpler.

Elegant thread swap, by the way.

>>

 No.7438

>>7383
> and configuration language.
You can always try to script Vim in, for example, Python. Or Lua. Or Racket.

>>

 No.7574

>>7438
Too bad all of its addons are written in Vimscript, and nobody sane wants to hack with that soykaf.

Emacs: 1
Vim: 0

>>

 No.7577

>>7574
>Too bad all of its addons are written in Vimscript,
That is why I am optimistic about Neovim. They intend to remove the insane eval.c file which is like 20k lines and they will replace the whole thing with vimscript to LUA translator.

>>

 No.7678

Alright I don't get it
I was afraid of however-they-call it condition that triggers emacs for using the pinky finger too much. So I started with Vim. And it hasn't changed a thing for I still use the pinky for the ESC key all the time, and there are still Ctrl keychords in Vim as well (such as C-f)
Am I missing something here?
Other than that, vim has pretty awesome keybinds tbh, like that dot '.' command

>>

 No.7679

>>7678
Instead of escape, use capslocks.

>>

 No.7694

>>7577
>and they will replace the whole thing with vimscript to LUA translator.
Do you want to hack on comment-free (or at least questionably commented) mechanically generated Lua instead?

This is the same conundrum of Guile Emacs -- The ELisp will still be there- and so will all your VimL.

>>

 No.7695

Finally bit the bullet and installed emacs on my netbook.

oh god help me.

I'm on debian, and I just want to get the cyberpunk-theme.el set up (https://github.com/n3mo/cyberpunk-theme.el)

The instructions are pretty clear, but I'm not sure what I'm actually supposed to be adding those lines to.

I don't have a .emacs file in my home directory, is this normal?

good god i feel like a noob

>>

 No.7696

File: 1437463687398.png (81.27 KB, 671x589, emacs customize.png) ImgOps iqdb

>>7695
Just C-x C-f ~/.emacs, C-x C-s to save it or just touch .emacs. Then get familiar with the menus. Pic related. No need to only edit by hand.

>>

 No.7697

>>7695
Better rev up that manual.

>>

 No.7700

>>7694
The point is that you will be able to use LUA and at the same time old scripts will still work (and will possibly be eventually rewritten in LUA). Also the plugin API is way better.

>>

 No.7709

>>7695
You should make ~/.emacs.d/ instead, and put init.el inside of it (~/.emacs.d/init.el) then put all the commands from the github page into it.

If your init.el starts getting too big and messy you can split it up into files, just look at other people's dotfiles for a way to do that.

And make sure your theme settings are loaded LAST. It's really not that big of a issue, but if you're tinkering with themes and it fails to load, it stops there and doesn't load any other elisp in your init.el so everything after the failed part wont load (keybindings, autocomplete, etc) and editing files without things your used to is annoying.

>>

 No.7714

>>7695
>oh god help me.
genereally speaking, on linux, when a ~/.something file is missing, just create the damn thing.

>>

 No.7745

vi(1), works everywhere is pretty fuarrrking simple and not as bloated as vim(1). The only thing I am missing a bit is spell checking.

>>

 No.7764

>>7395

Only good thing about Emacs is org-mode.

>>

 No.7783

I have to maintain a php project and I currently use Sublime Text 2. Did say that I hate PHP?

>>

 No.7907

Hello. Vim newbie here.

Before, I have been only using editors with the standard windows keybindings and when I wanted to change my last words I would do ctrl-backspace to erase them and then re-write them. What should I do on vim?

A thing that I find confusing is the position of the cursor in normal mode. Usually in the terminal, if a character is lit, it means that the cursor is just before that character. In normal mode and I think in visual mode, it's ambiguous, plus, there seems to be navigation commands that are inclusive and some that are exclusive. I find it annoying that I can't get to the end of the line and annoying that if I enter and exit insert mode, the cursor moves. It's true that I can just press shift-a to append to the end of the line, but I get more confused in visual mode when it's time to copy and paste some lines. Why didn't vi(m) just adapt the convention that the cursor is always before the lit character?

>>

 No.7911

>>7907
>ctrl-backspace to delete a word
In insert mode: ctrl+w
normal mode: dw or db

>character is lit

change your cursor to a vertical line or a hollow box instead of the block, if it helps, you'll get used to it, I suppose

>annoying to get to the end of the line

This annoys me as well.

>>

 No.7912

>>7907
>change my last words
caw (change a word) deletes the word the cursor is in and puts you in insert mode.
c3w changes three words
C changes the whole line

>there seems to be navigation commands that are inclusive and some that are exclusive.

Got an example? You could file a bug report on that.

I find it annoying that I can't get to the end of the line
$ goes to the end of the line.

>and annoying that if I enter and exit insert mode, the cursor moves.

That's because in insert mode the cursor shows where the char you type will be, in normal mode there's nothing after the last character of a line so it moves to the last char. I guess it behaves the same everywhere to keep it more comfortable.
You can use a map or something to change it.

>>

 No.7930

>>7907
> and when I wanted to change my last words I would do ctrl-backspace
You should have consulted with your lawyer instead.

>>

 No.7942

I honestly fail to see anything good in editor which has modality. Programming becomes partially programming the actual code and partially programmming the editor in command mode to get things done. I was hc-vimmer years ago but ended up dipping toes in Emacs because it had much better Haskell support. Now I tried to program in vim a non-trivial application and I have forgotten how to program the editor so it was horribly inefficient. There is just too much mental overhead going on and not actively using vim is same as forgetting foreign language because you are not using it. It's a big warning sign.

I also spent back in the vim days more time fighting the editor. I was really never sure how it would behave with external packages and my own configs. Emacs major and minor modes and dead-simple hooking system makes it much cleaner. I nowadays use mg for quick config edits in cli. I just wish it had syntax highlighting.

>>

 No.7945

>>7942
Both emacs and vim are inefficient when you forget how to use them.
Did you use a plugin manager for vim? You add the list of plugins you want to .vimrc and that's it. But it's true that if you change your plugins and their configs too often they'll tangle up, maybe a keybinding manager would be good but I don't know if there is one.

Did you find emacs easier to learn/harder to forget than vim?
Because commands in vim are intuitive like "caw" - change a word.

>>

 No.7948

>>7942
what does this have to do with modality?

>>

 No.7964

>>7945
I use pathogen, there's no need to do soykaf with vimrc.

>>

 No.7965

I've been trying out Vim and I'm surprised, the dot command and macros are pretty good, and as far as I can recall there's no such thing on emacs...

>>

 No.7970

>>7965
I'm not aware of what dot commands are.

Regardless, Emacs has macros in its implementation language and keyboard macros.

>>

 No.7974

Anybody else have issues with emacs keyboard commands hurting their hands?

>>

 No.7978

>>7974
>In the mid 90s I had bad hand pain, so bad that most of the day I could only type with one finger. The FSF hired typists for me part of the day, and part of the day I tolerated the pain. After a few years I found out that this was due to the hard keys of my keyboard. I switched to a keyboard with lighter key pressure and the problem mostly went away.
https://www.stallman.org/stallman-computing.html

I don't use emacs, but had the same problem and solved it doing what I explained here >>>/tech/8403

>>7970
In vim the dot (period) key repeats the last action you typed.

>>

 No.7980

>>7974
No. Same advice as with vim: map capslock to ctrl.

>>

 No.7996

>>5498
obviously vim

>>

 No.8004

>hacking

>>

 No.8014

>>8004
>playful tinkering

>>

 No.8017

>>7978
The problem with custom keyboard layouts is you come to rely on them and can't function without. Even with just a few custom keys in vim I type like a monkey on any system where I don't have them set.

>>

 No.8023

>>8017
Yeah, but my hands hurt so that didn't stop me.
I can still use qwerty, relatively slowly and looking at the keyboard, but I've never been a fast typer anyway.

>>

 No.8026

>>8014
playful clevering*

>>

 No.8057

Vim + ycm for c and emacs+evil for scheme

>>

 No.8065

File: 1438363908604.gif (1.27 MB, 860x426, vim.gif) ImgOps iqdb

A couple questions.
How can I have vim highlight the line the cursor is in? Like in this gif.

When the cursor is over a bracket, vim highlights the matching bracket by changing the character's foreground to white. I use white chars on dark background, so they display as white blocks when highlighted like that. I can't see if the char is { [ or ( until I move the cursor, and can't know over which of the two matching brackets the cursor is. How can I fix that?
I'm using Syntastic, but I disabled it and the problem persisted.

>>

 No.8066

>>8065
For the first thing you want "set cursorline". For the second thing, you chould change the highlight color with "highlight MatchParen ctermbg=DarkBlue" (or whatever color you want), or disable the highlighting with "NoMatchParen".

>>

 No.8070

Which plugin manager do you use? I prefer pathogen.

>>

 No.8072

>>8066
The second tweak worked great, thanks. But the first one underlines the line instead of changing its background color. "highlight CursorLine ctermbg=Blue" adds a background color to the current line but doesn't remove the underline, trying to do that now.

>>8070
Voundle.
With pathogen you have to download the plugins and put them in the plugins folder, right?
With voundle you add some plugins name to .vimrc like "Boundle 'PluginName'", open vim and do a :PluginInstall. Updating them all with :PluginUpdate is really handy.

>>

 No.8074

>>8065
how do you make the autocompletion

>>

 No.8076


>>

 No.8454

Welp, after trying out Vim I decided I like it's keybindings more than those of emacs. They're comfy.
Anyway, I didn't figure out how to get slimv running though, the documentation and all the tutorials pretty much skip the part where you actually run it (or I'm missin something here). So until have the patience to work that out, it's gonna be slime+evil mode.
Also Vim doesn't have good lisp indentation...

>>

 No.8456

>>8454
Have you not heard of evil mode?

>>

 No.8459

File: 1439420429906.png (207.71 KB, 361x691, 18548721.png) ImgOps iqdb

>>5639
eugh
Im sorry but eugh.
I guess whores will have their trinkets.

>>

 No.8464

>>5498
> are ya hacking with, /λ/?

I lost my bootstrap / user interface, so it's back to a hex editor & entering opcodes directly into live executing RAM, again.

http://skullcode.com/

To get back into the speakeasy I just have to say the right words (of its machine language).

>>

 No.8468

>>8464
you caught my interest
what is going on there? it looks like a hex editor but I can't do anything in it.
Anyway, are you really programming at that level you crazy fuarrrk?

>>

 No.8469

>>8459
notepad++ is a perfectly legit and very useful tool for anything related to (windows INNER JOIN hacking). we're not necessarily talking zen coding here, and for the occasional pasting around stuff / wielding regexes on a (possibly) freshly installed windows box, notepad++ is your bestest friend. keep in mind how notepad.exe does the thing where it only recognizes the cancer line endinges (\n\r) and fuarrrking ignores the normal ones

>>

 No.8472

File: 1439469047331.png (49.77 KB, 1440x800, sc-LLL.png) ImgOps iqdb

>>8468
> what is going on there?
Hackers hacking hackable hacks.

> are you really programming at that level


Well, until I scratch together a basic user interface for connecting to the remote system, yes. Once I get in I can probably bum an assembler off someone, then compile the rest of my toolchain.

Pic related is some code I wrote while building / testing my print string function.

If you're bored, go to offset 00006700 and enter the hex values shown in this pic, then just above that there's a nifty hook to execute whatever code you want. So, @664c enter 00006700 in little endian (00 67 00 00). Then write over the exclamation @6666 with zeros or a space and it'll run the code you entered.

One could just zero the byte @6666 without changing anything else and follow the clues until you unlock a guest login, but I'm aiming for a login path with more permissions...

>>

 No.8473

>>8472
Can you give me a hint on the skull?
[!]

>>

 No.8479

>>8473
Poor dead Skelly, still haunted by that execution.

>>

 No.8482

>>8479
Yea i'm basically blank.
I tried executing it but all that happened is it brought me back and the thought bubble was gone

>>

 No.8484

>>8482
see:
>>8472
> there's a nifty hook to execute whatever code you want.

>>

 No.8485

>>8484
I know how to execute it.
It's just that nothing happens when i try to execute that which is in the thought bubble.

>>

 No.8823

File: 1440628507542.gif (27.91 KB, 400x288, viman.gif) ImgOps iqdb

Vim, of course. I actually recently found Pterosaur, a firefox addon that lets you use vim as a server so that you can use vim controls in all of your textboxes. It's pretty nifty.

>>

 No.8829

>>8823
Vimperator and Pentadactyl already let you doing that by pressing ^I.

I just hate it when I press a numeric key and then d by accident.

>>

 No.8831

>>8829
that's what u is for
What I hate is when I lock CAPS and then forget about it and soykaf goes mayhem

>>

 No.8982

File: 1441173004480.webm (1.7 MB, 1600x1080, testing.webm)

Live WebGL coding in emacs + parenscript + three.js

parenscript is a common lisp -> javascript compiler that makes graphical programming a blast, you end up making your own CAD language

>>

 No.8995

>>8982
>Using the mouse
That's a very creative way to use emacs.

Btw Evil mode proved to be awesome for lisp, the % command is bliss when you're using lisp. v%dp, or c%. Cool shit

>>

 No.8996

Sublime Text 3

y'all plabs yo

>>

 No.9019

I use vim and will switch to neovim once it hits debian testing repos. Kind of curious about emacs+evil too.
Here are the plugins I use with vim: clever-f, Gundo, lightline, ShowTrailingWhiteSpace, syntastic, vim-commentary.

>>5510
Is autofold really useful? Using
set foldmethod=indent
set foldnestmax=2
Seems to do the trick.
Also, ave you checked out lightline? I tend to prefer it to airline.

>>5513
What would you say are the advantages of NERDTree over the default vim file browser that you'd open in a split?

>>5579
I used TextAdept for a few months last year and while I found nothing wrong with it I also thought that it offered nothing over other editors.

>>5622
I'm lucky enoug to not have to deal with PHP myself, but a friend of mine told me that having to write PHP in vim was pretty painful, especially indentation-wise.

>>

 No.9023

>>9019
I was actually checking out autofold, I was looking for some way to press space to un/fold the function the cursor is in but still couldn't find a way. There are map fatalities that look like
nnoremap <silent> <Space> @=(foldlevel('.')?'za':"\<Space>")<CR>
but can't get them to do what I want. I didn't know about foldmethod so thanks.
Just started using lightline, it's easier to configure than airline so I made the switch.

I'll try neovim as well once it's usable, but you'd have to wait a while after that for it to hit the testing repo, right? It'll be ready on github quite a while before that. I know installing from the package manager is comfier but the suspense would kill me.

btw, does ShowTrailingWhiteSpace let you delete the whitespaces automagically? Because you can do that with trailing-whitespace using :FixWhitespace

>>

 No.9059

File: 1441311006706.jpg (160.27 KB, 640x360, green-python.jpg) ImgOps Exif iqdb

You guys will probably rip me a new asshole for newfagging but w/e. I've been teaching myself Python 3 for a while now, and I'm getting pretty good at it (or so I think lol). But all the coding I do is in IDLE. It's a very minimalistic IDE, nothing like netbeans. I've never used vim or emacs, and notepad++ only a little. Basically my question is; what are the benefits of using a text editor over an IDE? And which one would you recommend lainons? I mainly code in python, and run win7/mint. I like minimalistic/subdued interfaces.

>>

 No.9066

>>9059
>I like minimalistic/subdued interfaces.
Vim is a programming-focused text editor, so it has a minimalistic interface but it also works minimalistically because it's just a text editor. When you think "I would like vim to do X" you add X as a plugin and have a custom dev environment.
I haven't tried emacs, but it's capable of doing a lot of stuff AOTB, the bad part is that you may not be going to use all of those things.
The main difference is that emacs uses ctrl, alt, super, etc to perform actions, while vim has an editing mode where you press letters to modify the text, like pressing d5w to delete five words.

>>

 No.9069

>>9059
What are you using to debug with? Or are you doing small projects and don't need something like VS for debugging?

>>

 No.9070

>>9069
My biggest project so far was ~350 lines of code in 3 modules. I've been debugging pretty much by googling the exceptions that come up in the traceback to try to figure out what's wrong. I haven't taught myself about debuggers yet. What's VS?

>>

 No.9071

File: 1441327560797.jpg (19.21 KB, 200x278, 1439619532462.jpg) ImgOps Exif iqdb

Emacs master race

>>

 No.9072

>>9070
VS = Visual Studio. It's a very good program for debugging. I've seen many people do emacs + VS a lot as a combo. emacs for the text editor and VS for the debugging.

>>

 No.9073

File: 1441332210316.png (54.84 KB, 673x640, god.png) ImgOps iqdb

just wrapped up a remote perl gig where I finally got to go back to my one true love

interviewing for my next job right now, probably a java shitfest. blah.

i wish perl wasn't dead :-(

>>

 No.9086

>>9073
Ssshhhh, no more tears, Perl 6 soon

TimToady promised us a release this Christmas!

>>

 No.9088

My fingers have vim memory, so it is the default when I'm not thinking consciously about it.

I use geany when I'm writing C, the

I keep an eye on Atom and lighttable and a few others and try them out from time to time, but they all seem too focused on webdev for my liking.

>>

 No.9094

I tried to force myself to like vim for about 2 years, since I started programming and "wanted to use what the pros use", but never got too good with it, it still felt like I was fighting the interface. I tried emacs because I was doing some Racket programming and heard good things about it, instantly felt at home with the keybinds, scripting in lisp, and the good support for running shells inside it. Can't use anything else now, even use Zile for commit messages and other quick command line editing tasks

>>

 No.9120

At my job I am constantly editing files across different linux systems so I use vi. If I was working on files on my local machine for an extended period of time I would use emacs. If you are going through SICP use emacs dummy.Posting mode: Reply [Return]

>>

 No.9134

If you want to use emacs you could take a look at tramp, which basically takes the bigger and puts it into your locally running emacs instance

>>

 No.9160

File: 1441549397321.jpg (115.85 KB, 624x624, vim-girl-3rd-L_08_original.jpg) ImgOps Exif iqdb

can we all agree that vim appeals more to sysadmin/hacker types (who will appreciate a simple modular text editor), while emacs appeals more to software developer types (who will appreciate a fully integrated environment)?

>>

 No.9162

>>9160

no because one can host the other inside itself quite well and the other cannot

also I use emacs for system administration and "hacking" professionally and personally

vim seems to appeal to single minded shell emulator enthusiasts and emacs appeals to those unfortunate wizards not yet given clearance to top secret DoD modern lisp machines

>>

 No.9169

vim, have tried to get into emacs, but the heavy chording is the bane of my existence.

>>

 No.9198

>>9162
Same here.

>>

 No.9226

>>9162

You can host emacs inside vim just fine, it's just nobody wants to do such a stupid thing.

>>

 No.9254

>>9169
I was a long-time vim user a couple of years ago. I wouldn't have switched to emacs if it weren't for its affinity to lisp.

>>

 No.9255

>>9254
Funnily enough, emacs is the thing that kills my occasional what would be journeys to learn lisp, because it's touted as /the/ way to develop lisp, but by five or ten or so pages into the emacs tutorial I'm fed up with navigating text the emacs way, and all my enthusiasm for lisp has evaporated as well.

>>

 No.9258

>>9160
absolutely false. If anything it would be reversed. True hackers usually are programming or debugging quite a bit and need Emacs' powers. Also unless you are familiar with a terminal multiplexer, Emacs is atleast as good as Vim for working with remote systems.

Vim is a much smaller, simpler text editor. You open a file in vim, make a quick edit and :wq. This is a benefit for smaller projects. Emacs is much more robust and powerful. This is a benefit for larger projects.

Both text editors happily have their place, and I use both regularly, albeit Emacs more often usually.

>>

 No.9259

>>9258
In my opinion.

>>

 No.9261

>>9073
How'd you get a remote gig? I'm moving soon and I really want to not have to worry as much about finding a job where I'm moving to. I've been looking places but TBH I don't really know where to start looking.

>>

 No.9265

>>5498
Zile, it's emacs without the operating system.

>>

 No.9266

>>9258
> True hackers usually are programming or debugging quite a bit and need Emacs' powers.
> need Emacs' powers.
> need
Yeah, no. Give ma a box I can boot from serial port and I will show you the world, manually.

>>

 No.9320


>>

 No.9334

File: 1442025147686.jpeg (9.99 KB, 274x184, big.jpeg) ImgOps iqdb

>>9266
>Give ma a box I can boot from serial port and I will show you the world, manually.

woah there hothead, you'd spend most of that time googling driver specs and unix command arguments, both of which have already statistically indexed as linguistically intuitive ido entries in my emacs instance

you console cowboys are digital plumbers, us emacs hackers are neurocomputational warlocks

>>

 No.9341

File: 1442058140477.png (21.06 KB, 720x400, hexedboot.png) ImgOps iqdb

>>9334
Here's a small program I wrote in machine code. It's a hex editor that I then use to write more machine code at runtime, and eventually bootstrap into ever higher levels of abstraction starting from nothing.

The code doesn't follow any existing language form, and couldn't, because I had to manually compress the code by reusing it. The whole program has only two in-memory variables, and I could remove those too, except I wanted this to run on even old 16 bit x86 hardware too.

The hex in pic related is the code that's producing the hex editor interface in the image. As you can see it's loaded at the inital memory address that all x86[-64] bootstrap processes begin execution. With it you can manipulate live RAM, edit and execute machine code it as if it were a dynamic "scripting language".

Here is a disassembly, and user guide for using said hex editor.
https://paste.fedoraproject.org/256208/
Now that machines don't have boot-from-serial ports, I use a hex editor that fits in a single 512 byte boot sector. With this one tool onc can then bootstrap an operating environment, from scratch if desired.

> implying I can't also use any even moderately popular language you can name, including shitty old Lisp.


Can I use any application thrown my way? Sure, who can't. I don't find pride in being able to become a user.

Do I NEED Emacs or Vi[m] or any other program to write make programs? No, I don't. I don't NEED anything but a system that allows some form of input, and a way to execute it. If that's Bash, Vi[m], Emacs, or even just a parallel port and a couple of paper clips as jumpers, I can program it. Because I'm a "true hacker".

Weak language-locked land lubbers are why the hackers are going extinct.

> you console cowboys are digital plumbers,

You couldn't even understand the statements I made. I mentioned not a thing about touching a "console" let alone riding one like a "cowboy". I fear you've let the languages and tools you obsess over limit your view of reality.

>>

 No.9358

>>5638
What's a real IDE?

>>

 No.9366

>>9341
You're pretentious as fuarrrk, but that hexboot thing truly blew my mind.

>>

 No.9371

>>9341
Oh god a "true hacker. What a waste of time.

>>

 No.9375

File: 1442118758043.png (151.76 KB, 1948x858, 1435942171642-0.png) ImgOps iqdb

>>9341
My side projects are starting to seem inadequate.

>>

 No.9378

>>9341

>shitty old lisp

>rewriting x86 toys

being retarded is one thing, wasting electricity on software no one will ever use is another, but I really hope you're as efficient at this as you say you are and didn't spend too much time on that

>>9341
>Weak language-locked land lubbers are why the hackers are going extinct.

and you're still stuck in von Neumann land while people who aren't afraid of parens like the DoD manipulate magical abstractions instead of electrical switches :)

if you don't think I'm just being smug, maybe try playing with *gasp* lisp and assembly inline together

http://www.loper-os.org/?p=401

>>

 No.9379

>>9341

>>9375
don't get wowed when people jerkoff to the results of their assembly tutorials, this is as useful as a faucet adaptor for sinks made in the 1980s

common lisp does bit-twiddling better and more efficiently than your 200 liner real-mode-only format function ;)

>>

 No.9382

I use nano.

>>

 No.9383

>>9382
It's okay friend, I do too.

>>

 No.9390

File: 1442164671116.jpg (59.72 KB, 622x521, 1442131649607.jpg) ImgOps Exif iqdb

>>9383
R-really?

>>

 No.9393

>>9378
> being retarded is one thing, wasting electricity on software no one will ever use is another.

My emdedded robotics systems, and even modern vehicles are "never used". Yeah, OK. Next time you press the break pedal realize that it hasn't been physically connected to the anything but the CAN bus, and it's hackers like me that can code at every level of abstraction which make sure your soykaf doesn't kill you, idiot.

>>

 No.9396

>>9341
How do I learn and use machine code? I mean for real, not as assembly. I'm also interested in how it applies to programming microcontrollers.

>>

 No.9397

>>9341
That is interesting, but ultimately almost completely useless. Keep doing it and telling us about it though. It really is neat.
I will never let myself become this familiar with x86[-64] machines because I find them disgusting examples of the destruction of computing.

>>9396
An assembler language is the syntax. An instruction set is the semantics. They should always be clearly separated when thinking about things. There are hundreds of assemblers to pick from. Some are specially made for interoperability between a language and the assembler language.

Here's an example using MIPS. Here's the three formats for instructions:
 Bitfield:|12345678|12345678|12345678|12345678|
Register:|opcodeRR|RRRrrrrr|RRRRRsha|mtfuncti|
Immediate:|opcodeRR|RRRrrrrr|xxxxxxxx|xxxxxxxx|
Jump:|opcodeXX|XXXXXXXX|XXXXXXXX|XXXXXXXX|

opcode: Denotes the type of instruction.
RRRRR, rrrrr: Denotes the registers used by the instruction for sources and the destination.
shamt: The shift amount, used for some instructions.
functi: Denotes the function being used for register instructions, such as addition or a right-shift.
x: Denotes a 16-bit immediate value.
X: Denotes a 26-bit address.

After this, it is merely becoming familiar with how the instruction set is processed and other details, such as standardized ways to interact with external devices. You should read a MIPS manual. I've read one that I should really reread soon, but it's a special derivative of MIPS, so you probably wouldn't get much use out of reading it.

>>

 No.9416

vim

>>

 No.9417

I use Emacs for editing all my texts since a year, 8 hours a day in the week, yet I haven't took the time to carefully study macros and I'm pretty inefficient using it.

How do I become a power user ?

>>

 No.9421

>>9417
>How do I become a power user ?
Read the three Emacs manuals:

https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/elisp.html
https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/emacs.html
https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/eintr.html

You can skip the introduction to elisp if you're already familiar with Lisp.
Anyways, you should already know how to read these from info-mode inside Emacs. They're already on your machine.

>>

 No.9437

in the last six months or so i tried sublime, vim and emacs.
I have settled on emacs with a nice setup for C/CL/Scheme development.
I dont mind it having all the features or boat depending on your position. But being able to have irc is pretty cool same with eww its useful for browsing documentation. Vim is a very nice editor too, just emacs is my goto now.
sublime can suck it

>>

 No.9438

How many of you here have used ed?

I used it when I was searching around for the editor I would use. I later settled on Emacs. Ed just doesn't have enough features and expandability is almost nonexistent.

I still use it for small edits sometimes.

>>

 No.9587

Emacs+Evil has come to be my favorite configuration. Alongside Stumpwm and vimb, I believe I have achieved the most comfortable setup for my fingers. Especially since I have a netbook in which the fuarrrking trackpad always gets in the way when I'm trying to type and then goes fuarrrking crazy.
I really like this Vim-like navigation while having emacs-like keys for higher level manipulation.
I also tried Vim+tmux/screen but for one thing, Vim is really shitty for lisp editing, it's like they say "fuck them lisp users, they have emacs"

>>

 No.9590

Is there any point in learning dvorak/colemak/<whatever keyboard> if you're going to use emacs or vim?

>>

 No.9591

>>9590
I use colemak and vim and the only issue is the placement of hjkl, AFAIK the other keybindings in vim are made to be intuitive, not ergonomic. You can solve it mapping colemak's right home row to hjkl in vim, or configure the keyboard layout at the OS level to have a set of arrow keys in AltGr + homerow or wherever else you want.
It's a lot more comfortable and with practice it's faster, I think that's the only point of alternative kb layouts.

Also, this >>>/tech/9614, the part about xcape.

>>

 No.9617

>>9397
> I find them disgusting examples of the destruction of computing

What do you mean?

>>

 No.9651

acme

>>

 No.9679

>>9617
>What do you mean?
Compare the systems of today to the systems of decades ago.

Computer systems decades ago were meant to work and actually provide features.

X86 is just a clusterfuck piling extension after extension yelling "Hey, look at me! Look at how fast I can run this new instruction! Don't worry about the fact that you'll never ever actually use it unless you want to brag about how optimized you are!"

These give the general idea:
http://danluu.com/assembly-intrinsics/
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/25078285/replacing-a-32-bit-loop-count-variable-with-64-bit-introduces-crazy-performance

"Yeah! I just optimized this instruction! Now my UNIX system will have more time to dedicate to constantly shifting data between textual representations for sh and then parsing it back into data so a program can use it! What a time to be alive!"

Meanwhile, computers and everyday programs, like browsers, still crash constantly or have other issues. We still emulate hardware from the 1970s to communicate with our operating systems. Processors are unnecessarily complex and have decades of hacks that add issues "Oh no, you have to stay in the cache! Oh no!" Modern processors don't even try to integrate features like type systems or GC into themselves, because why bother? They're just going to be wasted because C's too stupid and poorly designed to use those features.

Look at older systems like Symbolics Genera and Multics. Look at all of the elegant CPUs and actual variety that used to exist. Isn't it grand that it's all being scoffed at in the name of imaginary speed?

>>

 No.9685

Which vim-features will be missing when I install "just" evil?

>>

 No.9691

File: 1442935642592.png (1.54 MB, 1919x2560, pen.png) ImgOps iqdb

>>9679
>owning a slow pen

>>

 No.9692

>>9685
Very little, just the communication with emacs layers keep in emacs form. Spacemacs layers help further integration.

>>

 No.9693

File: 1442938075839.png (717.18 KB, 1000x793, dpt.png) ImgOps iqdb

>>5498
Currently still emacs but today my coworker started using Yi because his haskell-mode hates some of our codebase. I am most likely going to make the switch too but I have been very low on spare time in recent months so have no time to hack it to all my needs. Still, I can't wait to leave ELisp behind me.

>>

 No.9699

I use vi because it's what we used at my school and I just got used to it but I've been thinking about switching to another editor. Even Bill Joy said that vi was "written for a world that doesn't exist anymore." I wonder what he thinks of vim or nvi, though.

Should I switch to nvi or vim?
What would be the pros and cons between vi, nvi, and vim?

I was also wondering about acme. What are the pros and cons for that?

>>

 No.9707

>>9699
The only vi derivative that is currently practical is vim.

The advantages of using acme are being able to brag about using acme.

Have you ever considered using Emacs with its vi emulation modes?

>>

 No.9711

>>9707
I think I'm going to go with Vim. The plugins aspect is nice and brings simplicity. Vim is also more popular, so there's a lot of good resources for it. And it's recommended by suckless, and I do agree with their philosophy.

>>

 No.9712

>>9711
It's strange that suckless recommends it, but I guess it's not surprising, since they utterly hate Emacs.
There is some suckless guy writing a vi clone called vis though.

You should now that Vim's architecture and source code are so poor that there's an effort to overhaul the entire editor called NeoVim.

>>

 No.9721

>>9712
The only thing IMO that is like kicking dead whales down the beach about vim is that there is no repo for plugins.

In simple editors like Sublime Text you can install plugins from the editor with a command. In Vim there's a few ways to do plugins, none which are as simple.

>>

 No.9726

>>9721
this, or being able to add new repos with a simple line in the config file (like with emacs), would be a fresh and awesome feature for vim


>>

 No.9728

What should I read to get started with Emacs? I've been a vim user for a while, but recently tried Spacemacs. I liked it enough that now I want to try building up an emacs config from scratch. At the moment all I have is Helm and Evil.

>>

 No.9730

I started with vim at first but then eventually moved to emacs because of elisp. I still use vim once in awhile.

>>

 No.9733

>>9728
C-h i m emacs lisp intr<RET>

>>

 No.9973

>>9438
I guess I am the only one.

>>

 No.9974

>>9438
>>9973
Nah, I've used it too, eg for minor edits and when the terminal wouldn't do curses apps properly.

>>

 No.9999

>>9728
What do you like about Spacemacs compared to VIM? Is there anything obviously missing? I'm going to start dicking around with Emacs, I get really horrible lag with just syntax checkers, and YouCompleteMe makes it worse. So, hoping Emacs doesn't have these problems.

>>

 No.10010

>>9999
This is one of the main reasons I switched. I still use vim most days for editing in the terminal, but Emacs and elisp is just so much better when it comes to handling extensions and thus creating an environment for larger projects. The whole major/minor modes thing really made sense to me once I understood it. it's not very 'UNIX Philosophy', but having your editor with real-time syntax checking, documentation and debugger all one environment is a sight to behold.

As for Spacemacs, It's basically just a big collection of extensions and custom key-binds under a leader key (space) set up for people who are used to a vim style editing. I would recommend starting with it as a Vim user, seeing which parts you like and building a config from that, which is what I did. However, there's no reason you can stick with it if you're not a DIY kind of person, it's very well maintained, just big.

>>

 No.10126

jed user reporting for duty

>>

 No.10169

>>10126
You're a cool guy.


>>

 No.10215

>>7043
Neovim is worth using just for async plugin installation/updates. It's a pretty easy transition, everything just works (although there's a lingering bug that forces some fiddling for Ctrl-h within tmux).

https://github.com/junegunn/vim-plug

>>

 No.10230

File: 1444180346299.jpg (79.56 KB, 1708x1536, out.jpg) ImgOps Exif iqdb

who spacemacs here

>>

 No.10252

vim master race.

but i have been playing w/ vis lately
https://github.com/martanne/vis

>>

 No.10271

>>10230
Loving spacemacs right now, only problem I am having is autocompletion :(

>>

 No.10273

>>10271
What language are you using? The Spacemacs package auto-completion works fine for me in C and Lisp.
The actual Emacs package is called company-mode.

>>

 No.10274

How did Dennis Ritchie and Ken Thompson edit programs as they got UNIX to a state beyond assembly programming/front panel switches? Did they use ed or cat first?

>>

 No.10275

>>10274
I think I've read that they used ed, but don't quote me on it.

>>

 No.11120

I'm trying to get good at Sam, but it seems kinda confusing to play with.

>>

 No.11137

I like emacs. I use it for C/Lisp mainly. I used to use vim but i found the keybindings annoying to learn and emacs far easier. So i use it now. I also use it as an IRC client ERC is very nice.

>>

 No.11206

The Holy Trinity of meta commands:


M-x
/ \
/ \
/ \
/ \
/_________\
M-g M-g M-q

>>

 No.11210

>>10274
Most of those guys used ed, ex/vi, Sam, and Acme. Dennis was a huge fan of the latter.


>>

 No.11237

>>11210
I thought Acme was plan9 only?

>>

 No.11240

>>9086
Is perl 6 really going to improve things, I haven't been following it?

>>

 No.11298

>>11237
https://swtch.com/plan9port/

compiles fine on linux, have been using for a cpl of months

>>

 No.11299

>>11240
Seems to have a lot of cool features and sugar to it. Hopefully perl users will actually use it and it wont turn into another pythron3 that takes forever to get adoption

>>

 No.11301

>>11299
I trust Larry Wall won't fuarrrk up his language as bad as Guido did to his.

>>

 No.11304

I've been using vim for a long time but now I want to switch to emacs, because Emacs Lisp seems a lot more sensible than VimLang.
I've been going trough the manual in Emacs for about 1.5h but my pinky is hurting already.
What do /λ/?

>>

 No.11306

>>11304
Remap Caps Lock to Control

>>

 No.11307

>>11306
My keyboard layout uses Caps as a normal layer (like shift etc.), so I can't do that.
I've been playing around with spacemacs and that seems pretty much like what I wanted.

>>

 No.11308

Moved to GNU Emacs because of SLIME.

>>

 No.11314

File: 1446412536703.jpg (18.04 KB, 424x240, uriel-ron-paul.jpg) ImgOps Exif iqdb

"Anyone that considers for even one second to use nano should be taken out and shot on the spot."

>>

 No.11315

>>11314
>all the lainchan including you

>>

 No.11318

>>11314
Where's that uriel quote from?

>>

 No.11319

>>11314
"It's not so bad if you build it with the --disable-wrapping-as-root configure option and only use it as root.

In case you're wondering why I know *that*, nano is the least bad editor on the standard Arch Linux install CD image (the others are joe and traditional, breaks-if-you-push-a-cursor-key-in-insert-mode vi; I'd be happy with ed, but they didn't provide it), and I just peeked at the PKGBUILD to see if the Arch folks had needed to patch /etc/nanorc to make it stop mangling long lines. Apparently not..."

>>

 No.11320

>>11318
dev@suckless mailing list.

>>

 No.11322

>>11319
Arch doesn't provide ed or nvi by default? Wow, fuarrrk that distro.

>>

 No.11325

>>11322
It's just not in the base system but like as soon as you get into chroot you can just pacman -S "whatever you want"

>>

 No.11326

>>11299
>Hopefully perl users will actually use it and it wont turn into another pythron3 that takes forever to get adoption
Spoiler: Python3 was the one who didn't become like Perl6.

>>

 No.11355

Explain to me why Emacs or Vim is better than Atom or Sublime. Keep in mind that I use a great deal of plugins to make web development faster, including various LINTers, Emmet, snippets for Jade and SASS, etc.

Or are these only good for dead languages?

>>

 No.11357

>>11307
Check this out for mapping caps >>>/tech/9614
Also isn't there an "evil mode" for emacs that lets you use vim bindings?

>>

 No.11360

>>11355
>Explain to me why Emacs or Vim is better than Atom or Sublime.
No, that's not how this works. You're the one who has to justify why Atom or Sublime is better than Emacs or Vim. Atom and Sublime are newer and one of them costs money. There's no reason why anyone should be paying money to buy a fad editor when Emacs has had an active voluntary community for decades.

>>

 No.11494

>>11360
>paying money for software
>on the internet
Laugh

Seriously though, I literally explained why I prefer using Sublime and Atom. They both have really good package managers and huge support from web developers.

I also can't imagine working without multiple cursors, which there is a good animation of on the homepage: http://www.sublimetext.com/

So no, the onus of proof is not on me to defend my workflow, it's on the hipsters using 30 year old software

>>

 No.11508

>>11494
The thirty year old software has all those things. It comes with being thirty years old.
http://emacsrocks.com/e13.html
https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/emacs/Package-Installation.html

>>

 No.11510

>>11494
Vim is about modal editing, if you like it, you will not be able to not use it elsewhere. It just takes time to get used.

Emacs is an OS, it has no barriers. It takes time to get used too, it's another paradigm change. Spacemacs makes life easier, specially if you like vim bindings.

And also, calling people hipsters because they use something that's well stablished for a long time and not the latest fad doesn't make sense.

>>

 No.11519

I understand that Vim/Emacs takes up less screen real estate and enables you to focus on your code, but nowadays what are it's real advantages over newer source editors like Sublime Text and Atom that can't be replicated?

>>

 No.11521

File: 1446695220854.png (60.61 KB, 1919x1014, focus_on_one_thing1.PNG) ImgOps iqdb

>>11519
Just use it and form your own opinion.

>>

 No.11522

>>11519
Vim has modal editing, and if you like that you literally won't want to use anything else. Vi emulation in emacs is very good, but in other programs it's lacking from what i've been told.

Emacs is the most customizable text editor ever, bar none. You might think it's on par with atom/sublime in terms of tweaking, but once you get deeper into it, it lets you do so much more.

>>

 No.11534

>>11519
Emacs enables you to customise your text editor however you please and there are extensions for just about anything you can imagine; Realtime syntax checking, interactive debugging, even that minimap from Sublime Text.

Its power comes from the fact that it's not reeaaally a text-editor, but simply an interpreter for a variant of Lisp Users have the power to create their own functions to perform whatever actions they please. You can use this to create things like run IRC a terminal (which can run Emacs) within Emacs.

>>

 No.11570

vim. I'm new and suck though. use it for c++. any tips on how to get it to not suck and actually have presets work?

>>

 No.11572

>>11570
Emacs with a vi-like plugin is better for C++ development than Vim.

>>

 No.11688

In emacs, when I launch list-packages, why does the UI lock up? Why isn't it doing network calls in a separate thread, allowing me to resize panels while it is loading?

I've been using spacemacs but accidental typos have often lead me into some obscure mode or functionality I can't break out of, forcing me to kill emacs and start over.

There is something about emacs that I just can't get into the flow of editing with it.

>>

 No.11689

>>11519

There aren't any real advantages over other modern editors. It's just a culture that you can buy into if you want to.

I use vim because its everywhere, I've tried to like emacs a number of times, but I find it gets in the way of editing text more often than not.

On the desktop I've been using and liking Atom. There are obscure edge cases where emacs can do something 'better', but I've found these to either be rube Goldberg device type demonstrations, or solutions-looking-for-a-problem.

The most common and useful features are already implemented in most editors.

If you already know emacs, there's no reason to move to a different editor. If you don't know any editors well, give them all a spin and run with whatever works for you.

>>

 No.11694

>>11494
>hipsters
Where did this soykaf come from?

Sublime text is only 7 years old and costs money, but for some reason every salty asshole has used it and thinks vim is for weirdos.

>>

 No.11695

>>11519
really the main thing you have to realize is that basically every other editor out there has no real concept of creating more efficient text-editing, except by appending to the notepad.exe model. In other words, they all start from the basic idea of being able to write plaintext, with standard ibm shortcuts, and then from there everything else needs to be (mostly) automated appendages that can predict your next intended code

In other words, they don't even attempt to make the task of writing any more efficient than a type-writer, unless they plug it in for you. the most you really get is ctrl+/ to auto-comment the line, and maybe an alt+shift+f to auto-format

Vim's primary benefit is to offer a much more powerful set of keyboard-commands to move around and manipulate text. dd to delete the line, dw to delete the word, fw to jump to the first w, [ to jump to the next code block (in brace-languages), % to find the next bracket ([{, or its matching bracket if you're already on one, 'a to mark the line as a, "a to jump to "a mark, and so it goes on. The keybinds form it's own kind of language, and become extremely manipulable in a bash-like manner (effectively piping key-command to key-command) which can also easily and fully encased in macros.

Emac's primary benefit is to offer a programmable editing environment, in which you easily interact with a large quantity of files quickly, and create additional commands and functionality with little trouble. Like vim, it also has a large keyboard-command featureset, but rather than a bash-like piping system, it's more of an ibm system (heavily dependent on the meta keys alt-ctrl-shift and combinations). Where vim allows you to easily combine functions to produce extremely complex actions, emacs allows you to /program/ complex functions using a lisp-variant.
Where vim is gnu coreutils with pipes, emacs is coreutils with bash.


So there's a clear benefit, then, when it comes to /complex/ manipulation of text. Atom, Sublime, Visual Studio, they're not attempts to enhance your ability in this area. Hell, they're barely even text /editors/. As editors, they offer little more than notepad, enhanced with auto-completion. The main reason they're important isn't for their editing abilities, but for their debugger integration.

And of course, when it comes to linters, emmet, syntax highlighting, file trees, split-view, etc, both vim and emacs either do it natively, or there's probably a plugin for it.

So basically
vim/emacs are things that let you work on text
and happen to do every other thing sublime does and then some

>>

 No.11698

>>11357
The problem with evil-mode is, that it only adds those keybindings for editing.
You'll still fuarrrk up your pinky doing anything other than that.

>>

 No.11701

>>11695

>every other editor out there has no real concept of creating more efficient text-editing


this statement is utter bullshit

>>

 No.11703

>>11689
>There aren't any real advantages over other modern editors.
You can login to just about any unix-like system and expect to find something that works like vim, even if it's busybox vi. That may not sound important if you're just messing around on your laptop, but if you're doing real work with servers or embedded systems it means a huge advantage to being comfortable using vim.

>>

 No.11711

>>11688
Emacs only uses a single thread. Having too many modes enabled at once also causes a noticeable delay in text entry too.
The Dwarf Fortress of text editors.

>>

 No.11712

>>11701
did you not finish the sentence

>>

 No.11713

>>11698
evil-mode can be used with pretty much every emacs plugin. I don't use emacs keybindings for anything (mail client, pdf viewer, feed reader, irc client, file manager, etc.). Using some application with evil mode is often more vimmy than vim-inspired or keyboard focused standalone programs (e.g. consider that pretty much no keyboard operated feed reader like canto or newsbeuter even supports binding key sequences).

>>

 No.11729

>>11711

Are you serious? Can't believe I wasted so much time on learning it.

>>

 No.11734

>>11712

I guess I didn't, but to claim no editor has the concept of more efficient text editing except for emacs is ridiculous. Almost all modern editors have the concept of extending and customizing the editor to facilitate more efficient text editing



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