λ - Text Editors

Posting mode: Reply [Return]
Name
Email
Subject
Comment
File
Password	(For file deletion.)

File: 1447048898244-0.png (138.05 KB, 1048x1024, GNU.png) ImgOps iqdb

File: 1447048898244-1.png (89.59 KB, 1022x1024, Vim.png) ImgOps iqdb

Text Editors Anonymous 2015-11-09 06:01:38 No.11743

Let's talk about the text editors we use.

Do you use a common editor or something more exotic?

Are you using an exotic form of a common editor?

What are you looking forward to in future editor development, currently?

Anonymous 2015-11-09 06:09:30 No.11744

I use brackets.

Anonymous 2015-11-09 06:16:46 No.11746

I use Sublime Text

Anonymous 2015-11-09 07:23:05 No.11748

>>11729
>Are you serious?
He's not. Emacs is asynchronous.

One of the main reasons NeoVim exists is because Vim is synchronous and the existing project makes it too hard to add, apparently.

Anonymous 2015-11-09 08:03:26 No.11751

Vim is just a text editor.

Emacs is a way of life.

Anonymous 2015-11-09 08:45:32 No.11752

File: 1447058732564.png (335.33 KB, 751x600, sam.png) ImgOps iqdb

the one and only

Anonymous 2015-11-09 08:58:38 No.11753

I always wondered is Atom a great editor compared to brackets? i.e; for WebDev?

Anonymous 2015-11-09 10:09:14 No.11761

Is the previous thread beyond the bump limit?

Anonymous 2015-11-09 15:03:50 No.11769

>>11761
It's at the reply limit.

Anonymous 2015-11-09 16:04:36 No.11770

Is there something like a "programmers guide to Emacs" ?
When I started using AwesomeWM I looked at the structure of the lua.rc file and the API and started to code stuff. I screwed thing every second day, but now stuff just works™.

Most Emacs tutorials I find start to talk to you about the premade keybindings (which are a pain in the ass, if you have a keyboard like mine) and not about how to adapt Emacs to your use (which is, imho the most important thing).

Anonymous 2015-11-09 16:05:06 No.11771

Vim, but I don't love it.
I like the modal use and the intuitive keyboard fatalities but it's too big of a program with the legacy code and all that, complains over vim are generally the same everywhere. This is bad conceptually because I like minimalism but also practically because my computer is soykaf and vim hangs from time to time.
Tried emacs+evil and it works better, seems like a better option if I actually got good with the lisp configs but it's also very big OOTB, though more elegantly big and the GUI works more fluent than the console version. A web search shows that more than one person already thought of making a stripped down version of emacs, has anyone here tried one of those?
Neovim was slow too, so the soykafness of my computer must be a serious issue. I hope to see (or make) a couple plugins for nvim because I'd need alternatives to the ones I currently use in vim.

Question for vim users: what would you think about a separate --MOVE-- mode for vim? Because edition and motion are both crammed into the normal mode and separating them could lead to more intuitive key sequences.

>What are you looking forward to in future editor development, currently?
I find keyboards too unergonomic so maybe an AI that would see how I code and predict my moves, eventually taking over my projects and finishing them in 1 ms.

Anonymous 2015-11-09 19:57:15 No.11778

>>11748

being asynchronous and the threading model are 2 separate things though

Anonymous 2015-11-09 20:12:18 No.11780

>>11743
> Do you use a common editor or something more exotic?
It's funny but I use Notepad++ because it is fast enough and has all the features I need. Haven't settled for linux editor yet, but I doubt that it will be vim or emacs.

>What are you looking forward to in future editor development, currently?
Spatial visualization. I want to visually see classes, functions or methods as figures (spheres/squares/etc) in virtual space, with pipes and other neat connections between them. So that you could switch between layers and view objects and their connection, and up above to files that are in project. Such visual tool will greatly speed up construction of the mental image of the whole code project in programmer's head and will allow to quickly go through abstractions or code structure. Everytime I study new codebase or re-visit my own project, it takes too much time because when starring at text methinks "Soykaf, what a spagetti" even with clean code.

Anonymous 2015-11-10 03:36:01 No.11797

>>11780
>Haven't settled for linux editor yet, but I doubt that it will be vim or emacs.
Gedit is probably what you want then.

Anonymous 2015-11-10 14:53:52 No.11808

>>11780
>but I doubt that it will be vim or emacs.
You're restricting yourself to an underpowered workflow because you don't want to learn how to use a tool?
so you're one of those "programmers" huh?

Anonymous 2015-11-10 15:09:07 No.11810

>>11797
Didn't like it.

>>11808
>You're restricting yourself to an underpowered workflow because you don't want to learn how to use a tool?
>so you're one of those "programmers" huh?
I've seen this coming. Do you use sledgehammer for driving small furniture nails? I don't. And no, I'm not a programmer, so there is no need for "Powered™ workflow".

Anonymous 2015-11-10 16:20:22 No.11812

I started with Sublime and now switching to vim.

Anonymous 2015-11-10 16:35:39 No.11814

Emacs is too much.
I tried Vim/Vi and it was weird that I needed to enter commands to allow me to do anything. I tried to move but I could not unless I entered a command that would put me into a mode that allowed me to move but not type. And to type I had to enter a command that would allow to me type but not move.
I tried Nano and thought "How do I move...the arrow keys?" And yup it was the arrow keys. I tried to input text and it just works. I don't understand the point of Vim. What do you gain from having to enter extra commands to enter certain modes before you can do....anything? Why not just NOT do that like with Nano. Vim sort of feels like a prank for me. I use Nano for basically everything except when I'm working on a big project on my local machine, then I use Arcadia, which I've never heard of anyone other than myself using.
http://www.arcadia-ide.org/

Anonymous 2015-11-10 17:10:56 No.11816

>>11770
Maybe something like this?
https://tuhdo.github.io/
Or these?
https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/eintr.html
https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/elisp.html

Anonymous 2015-11-10 17:18:06 No.11817

>>11814
>I needed to enter commands to allow me to do anything
There are keybindings for that, by default 'i' puts you insert mode for writing and ESC puts you in normal mode for moving and editing.
>What do you gain from having to enter extra commands to enter certain modes before you can do....anything?
Having faster ways to do certain things that you'll do a lot of times if you're programming, for example if you want to change what's in a block of code, you type ci} which means "change what's inside the curly braces". That deletes what's in the block, puts the cursor between the curlies and goes into insert mode.
If you're willing to give it a second try you should read some vim primer, there are plenty of blog/forum posts explaining the basic keys.

Anonymous 2015-11-10 17:26:40 No.11818

>>11814
http://blog.carbonfive.com/2011/10/17/vim-text-objects-the-definitive-guide/

Anonymous 2015-11-10 17:51:47 No.11821

>>11817
This here. At first it does feel awkward, and you end up fighting the modal nature of vim. But as you accomodate to the vim workflow, you end up saving a lot of time with features like the dot command, or cw or d% and that without macros.
Also whe you get used to moving around with hjkl you'll feel awkward going aalll the way to the arrow keys too often

Anonymous 2015-11-10 17:56:00 No.11822

>>11814
I really want to love emacs, but ctrl+mod is just 2autistic4me.

Anonymous 2015-11-10 18:15:36 No.11824

Modal editing and vim-shortcut are great, but the downside comes where you have to switch to something more usual. Then you end up with a document full of unwanted o,O,i,I,v, :w or screwing it up by pressing ctrl+w to remove the last typed word.

Vim is also a pain to configure imho. If you don't program much it's fine but juggling between different syntax and rules (say TeX, html, Haskell, Python and PHP) can get messy, and I never understand how to install plugins properly.

Tried Emacs but for now I don't feel like wasting time in something with a steep learning curve where vim works well generally.

Anonymous 2015-11-10 18:46:20 No.11826

I first used vim but i got interested in LISP and people usually advise using emacs for lisp. After using emacs for a little while i just found it easier to use than Vim. Elisp is nice aswell

Anonymous 2015-11-10 21:25:01 No.11830

>>11824
>Modal editing and vim-shortcut are great, but the downside comes where you have to switch to something more usual.
Yeah, I avoid making those instinctive keystrokes by looking at the keyboard instead of the screen when I'm writing in some other editor. Also, you can look for a plugin or something to get your web browser to use vim as external editor for things like posting here, pressing ctrl+w when you're writing a long post can be like kicking dead whales down the beach.

>Vim is also a pain to configure imho.
>Tried Emacs but for now I don't feel like wasting time in something with a steep learning curve where vim works well generally.
I agree about vim's configuration. You could try emacs (it has a UI for configuring (almost?) everything (even in terminal mode (but that one can be less comfortable (but you can configure (almost?) everything using the GUI then go back to command line)))) in evil mode, which configures emacs to use vim keybindings everywhere.

>and I never understand how to install plugins properly
Have you tried using a plugin manager? I use one called voundle, you type the names of the plugins you want in .vimrc and :PluginInstall :PluginRemove and :PluginUpdate do the work for you. Emacs does this better for a couple reasons, for instance you can install plugins without looking them up online or writing manually to the config files, in emacs it's like using a package manager. And it includes alternatives to vim plugins for using in evil mode.

Anonymous 2015-11-10 21:44:30 No.11832

I use emacs + terminal. But Im an emacs pleb, I only really know the basic shortcuts nor do I know elisp so my emacs is not riced out. I just use it because I used to use vi (and before that geany) and wanted to try something new.

I dont usually like programming with IDEs for various reasons but I will say that it is sometimes a pain when Im learning a new language, to get my terminal compatible with the compiler. For some languages its as straight forward as setting the path in your .bashrc but I had a lot of trouble getting Go to work for some reason.

>What are you looking forward to in future editor development, currently?

I am looking forward to atom getting its kinks worked out, its really laggy and I have an i5 so idk. Ill admit sublime text is a really nice editor I really want atom to be as good as sublime.

Anonymous 2015-11-10 22:32:21 No.11834

I've wanted to like emacs. I've made several attempts at learning and using it, but no matter if the attempt was in 1996, 2003, 2010, 2015, my emacs install/config eventually becomes a mess of plugins and config changes that result in a stream of lisp errors on startup that I cannot debug. Other than that, I often find emacs becoming unresponsive at weird times, or key input is being grabbed by some broken function that is never released, and I'm forced to kill emacs and start over. The UI is soykaf an unresponsive. Emacs simply does not work for me, it gets in my way more often than it helps. The only time emacs 'just works' is when it's something like mg, in which case it's just like any other plain editor but with soykaf default keybindings. I give up on it.

I don't have a favourite editor, but I use vi/vim/neovim and trying atom, which despite hurrdurr javascript, hurrdurr editor-in-a-browser, has worked better for me than emacs ever has.

Anonymous 2015-11-11 01:25:42 No.11850

I use emacs and Vim interchangeably from time to time. I'd use emacs+evil alone, but it's kind of awkward using emacs keystrokes for half of the tasks, and vim keystrokes formthe other half, especially since I have to remap Caps_Lock to either Ctrl or Esc.
I love emacs for it's community and several facilities like having everything in one frame. But Vim keybindings are far more efficient imo and it feels I'm doing it the unix way (even if this last thing is a superfluous one)

Anonymous 2015-11-11 03:23:54 No.11855

>vim
>no concurrency
>no daemon mode

It's ogre. Vim lost.

Anonymous 2015-11-11 06:19:43 No.11863

>>11855
>what is neovim

Anonymous 2015-11-11 06:27:45 No.11865

>>11863
>it's so bad it needs a complete rewrite to be modern
It's ogre. Vim lost.

Anonymous 2015-11-11 10:08:12 No.11871

>>11865

emacs needs a complete rewrite to be modern too

Anonymous 2015-11-11 12:34:31 No.11873

>>11871
>to be modern too
What doe s this even mean?

Anonymous 2015-11-11 15:23:45 No.11876

>>11873
Emacs is too useful to be modern software.

As for NeoVim, it seems interesting enough. It's already scriptable in Common Lisp now, so that's something.

Anonymous 2015-11-11 15:53:50 No.11877

>>11780
If you don't like Gedit, you could try Textadept. I didn't really like it, but it's the closest editor to Notepad++ that I could find on Gnu/Linux.
Still ended up using vim tho.

Anonymous 2015-11-11 19:34:03 No.11880

>>11743
obligatory vimmasterrace comment

Anonymous 2015-11-12 02:02:49 No.11896

>>11865
>Vim
>bad
Now you're making soykaf up.
and Vim is itself a rewrite of Vi. I don't see any problem in refactoring once again, it's usualky a good thing to do that.
Vi is evolving, sublime, atom, and those shitty editors son't evolve, they're proprietary, they take upon ideas introduced by venerable editors like Vi and Emacs, and they don't really introduce new concepts, they just make a sort of gedit/notepad with syntax highlighting and a feature from the classics, so the user doesn't need to learn too much and can continue on clicking the way windows educated them to do.
They're simply not superior, and they won't endure like the paradigm that Vi in itself represemts, nor do they account for the power thatnserious programmers look after in their editors. That's the reason people end up trying Vi or Emacs after using atom forma while, and when they learn it and discover how swift and proficient they become, they don't go back.
Unless they're casual users and realky don't need all that power

Anonymous 2015-11-12 03:40:31 No.11902

>>11896

In what way is atom proprietary?

Anonymous 2015-11-12 06:19:34 No.11905

>>11753
I use Atom, it's fine.

Anonymous 2015-11-12 08:03:46 No.11907

>>11880
Obligatory emacs master race reply

Anonymous 2015-11-12 11:39:49 No.11911

>>11902
In a way that its not Vim. That means it is proprietary.

Anonymous 2015-11-12 22:35:24 No.11925

>>11688
Apparently in 25.1 the package downloads will be async.

Anonymous 2015-11-12 23:44:12 No.11927

I use Emacs+Evil because every vi implementation I've tried was awful (especially Vim).

Anonymous 2015-11-13 00:52:00 No.11929

I'm going from Vim to Emacs(Spacemacs) right now. Vim was shitting all over the place with a few plugins, and it's cumbersome to move output to/from a REPL.

Still fumbling around but it's obvious there's tons more power to make things how I want with Emacs.

Anonymous 2015-11-13 15:45:06 No.11944

>>11927
What is awful in the Vim way of implementing Vi? I'm pretty curious.

Anonymous 2015-11-14 05:53:18 No.11965

>>11748
Emacs is asynchronous, but it isn't threaded.
There's a project to add threaded processing to Emacs, but I'm not sure how far along it is.

Anonymous 2015-11-14 06:16:50 No.11966

>>11944
Vimscript might just be the ugliest thing I've ever seen. Also, it tells me to donate to Uganda.

Anonymous 2015-11-14 11:57:38 No.11977

>>11966

Is ugandaware RMS approved?

Anonymous 2015-11-14 12:05:52 No.11978

>>11977
It's free software, yes.
As far as RMS is concerned, the Emacs/Vim debate is just a bit of playfulness.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S76pHIYx3ik

Of course he prefers Emacs, because he wrote it.

Anonymous 2015-11-18 14:27:29 No.12094

File: 1447856849839.png (97.81 KB, 367x400, title2.png) ImgOps iqdb

Went from vim to spacemacs for programming, looks great so far and there's a ton of stuff I haven't tried yet. Leaving the console feels good in this case.

I have two problems with it. I keep forgetting some of the SPC-a-b-c combos and couldn't find a cheatsheet like this >>5520 for spacemacs.
The other thing is that I can't find out why some settings aren't loaded on startup, for example I went to :customize, changed the powerline separator to nil and clicked "apply and save" which added '(powerline-default-separator nil) to custom-set-variables in .spacemacs but when I close and reopen the program it has the default separator.

>>11780
>Spatial visualization.
Same. I think it would be a great emacs layer or feature for any IDE.
Scanning the code and rendering a graph doesn't sound hard to do, not that harder than syntax highlighting.

Anonymous 2015-11-18 18:44:17 No.12099

>>11780
I'm pretty sure most popular IDEs have some plugins for UML reverse-engineering and generating call-graphs.

Anonymous 2015-11-18 21:12:18 No.12110

>>12094

When you hit space, doesn't it bring up helm screen at the bottom with all the available keys listed? It does for me..

Anonymous 2015-11-18 22:20:45 No.12113

>>12094 here
Solved the customization problem by manually adding commands to dotspacemacs/user-config() in .spacemacs, the hard part was to find the commands that did what I wanted.

>>12110
It does, I think I was just tryin to rush through the learning process.

Anonymous 2015-11-19 00:54:09 No.12121

>>12113
If you're trying to configure something in Emacs just search the functions and variables (C-h v/f) for keywords related to what you're looking for. Spacemacs has Helm, which should fuzzy match the whole list. Emacs will tell you what the variable/function does, how it's defined, and how it can be modified.
When you've found what you're looking for you can just put (setq <variable> <value>) or a function call in your init file.

Anonymous 2015-11-19 03:38:31 No.12127

I use atom as my daily driver, I don't recommenced it yet but in time ones the technology is more developed and "better" then I feel like it can be considered one of the better text editors.

It's already leagues ahead of sublime in everything but speed

Anonymous 2015-11-22 16:04:39 No.12267

>>11743
Emacs + Evil for most of my programming needs (except Java), vim/nvim on the command line, via ssh etc.

Atom if I just want to quickly open/edit a file in a graphical environment.

inb4 "Atom so slow"

Anonymous 2015-11-23 08:55:51 No.12297

>>12267
Why would you use Atom when you seem to be proefficient with both vim and emacs?

Anonymous 2015-11-23 11:29:34 No.12305

>>12297
I only use Atom as my "graphical" kind of toy editor, this is by no means necessary, vim does the job as well, but this is fast (especially since I like to keep notes in .md files and atom has the preview out of the box and is quick to set up).Bit for fun and playing around, so me using atom is not that serious.
It was also turned out as a nice way to view and edit json files. For some reason, emacs chokes on json files with >1million words (opens and reads them fine, but pretty print buffer kills it =( havent figured out if this is just an emacs thing, I'd rather assume that it's because of the json package)

I use vim when I'm already in the command line and want to create a file or edit a file from there `vim file`.

I use emacs when I actually program and hang out in my editor for a longer periods of time, you know what I mean?

Anonymous 2015-11-23 19:04:44 No.12309

>>11751

Jokes aside, I think both can be very "way of life"-y, just in different ways. Emacs folk tend to integrate everything into Emacs (mail, www, irc, etc...) whereas vim folk, at least the biggest fans, inject vim keybindings into everything: PDF readers, window managers, web browsers...

Anonymous 2015-11-23 19:08:15 No.12310

I enjoy acme, although it's certainly an acquired taste.